100% agreed!

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He would've been perfect for the role of Sonny Black, if only because Michael Madsen looked and performed alittle too much like a thug or a foot soldier to be taken seriously as a potentially 'made' man.
All these guys begin as thugs or petty crooks before they can ascend up the ranks (unless you happen to be born a son of one of the top guys, then you can jump the queue a la Alphone Persico), so his Madsen's appearance is not that implausible.
When darkness overcomes the heart, Lil' Slugger appears

^YES! He would've been perfect for the role of Sonny Black, if only because Michael Madsen looked and performed alittle too much like a thug or a foot soldier to be taken seriously as a potentially 'made' man. Also, Armand is just the all around better actor. I never understood how Michael Madsen with all his mumbling and growling got so far in the acting business.
Thanks. I'm glad someone agrees. There are tons of actors I could've seen as Sonny Black instead of Madsen. I would've got Armand Assante, Chazz Palminteri, Frank Vincent, or Ray Sharkey if he was living. Michael Madsen is the last actor I would've picked. I saw a picture of the real Sonny Black that reminded me of Frank Vincent.

Armand Assante
^YES! He would've been perfect for the role of Sonny Black, if only because Michael Madsen looked and performed alittle too much like a thug or a foot soldier to be taken seriously as a potentially 'made' man. Also, Armand is just the all around better actor. I never understood how Michael Madsen with all his mumbling and growling got so far in the acting business.
When theres no more room in Hollywood, remakes shall walk the Earth.

He was fine in the part. Asante would have been good, sure. I don't think Michael madden was miscast.

Sonny Black's descendants were not Sicilian, Neapolitan or Calabrese. His were from Naples.
Neapolitan- a native or inhabitant of Naples, Italy
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/neapolitan
And those sources are crap. Wikipedia is unreliable. There have been books written about Donnie Brasco and Sonny Black, and there is no mention of him being straight up blonde. If he was, this would be extremely rare anyway.

Forget my father, I'm talking about Sonny Black. I shared a link but obviously you did not read it.
Sonny Black's descendants were not Sicilian, Neapolitan or Calabrese. His were from Naples.
"Dominick Sonny Black Napolitano came into this world on June 16, 1930 and was raised in Williamsburg, Brooklyn where he got his start as a petty thief. Although his descendants were from Naples, Italy, he was born with blond hair and as he grew into adulthood died it jet black which earned him the nickname Sonny Black."
LINKS-
http://americanmafiahistory.com/sonny-black/
http://mafia.wikia.com/wiki/Dominick_Napolitano
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominick_Napolitano
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95966

According to a whole bunch of sources online, Sonny Black was a natural blond (yes you do get them in Italy), so he himself didn't look like the "stereotypical Italian"!
Huh? Where did you read that?
American Mafia members' lineages are strictly Sicilian, Neapolitan, or Calabrese (all three in southern Italy). Italians from that region typically have darker features than those of northern Italians. So you saying your father is "100% Italian" is meaningless.

This thread is kind of funny to me. I'm half Italian and so half of my family are Italian. I know the stereotype of Italian men is that they are all olive skinned, tanned, white guys with black hair.
There are some like that in my family. My father who is 100% Italian is fairly pale and has light brown hair.
Even so though what amuses me is everyone keeps saying what the real Sonny Black looked like with black hair etc
According to a whole bunch of sources online, Sonny Black was a natural blond (yes you do get them in Italy), so he himself didn't look like the "stereotypical Italian"!
"Dominick Sonny Black Napolitano came into this world on June 16, 1930 and was raised in Williamsburg, Brooklyn where he got his start as a petty thief. Although his descendants were from Naples, Italy, he was born with blond hair and as he grew into adulthood died it jet black which earned him the nickname Sonny Black."
http://americanmafiahistory.com/sonny-black/

I agree as far as his looks but he has a certain nastiness about him (and often does in other films, even as a "nice guy" in "Thelma and Louise") that made him believable as the petty, bullying jerk that Sonny Black was, especially to Lefty. I think his sleaziest scene is when he highjacks the boat cruise from Lefty, taking all the credit for Lefty and Joey's work, and there's nothing they can do about it. His insulting, opportunistic actions made Lefty's role even more pathetic, and hence, Joey's allegiance to him more believable.

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Years and years have gone by and I still believe this movie did not live to its 100% potential just because of that, the fact Michael Madsen does not even look italian and his playing an italian mob captain, in a Mafia so tight and restricted to its membershipJesus Christ! this is not the role for him but oh well just goes down in history next to Keanu Reeves' Jonathan Harper

The acting throughout this film was top notch, but Madsen's was my favorite. I was thrilled he was such an important part of this beloved (at least to me) film.

I like his acting and have nothing against the guy at all so I hope no one takes offense to this but:
He reminds more of someone from Mayberry or Mt Pilot NC maybe, not NYC mob. Maybe the bad ass, crazy cousin of Gomer Pyle and I mean that in a good way. I dunno what it is about his looks that says 'southern' or mid western or, even from Chicago just not Brooklyn. One of Capones gang or riding along with Dillinger ? Yep, no problemo.
I think it maybe his build and facial characteristics say 'corn fed'. Not bull dog enough. Al is no bull dog type either but he still has 'the look' down + hes from NYC. It works. If Mr Green Jeans was a Don . Oh, I suspect I'm gonna really p*ss some off here - not my intention, sorry.

"Madsen doesn't even look Italian or believable as a man from the mafia."
Really? I think he looks believable.

If you read the book about Donne Brasco, you can see that Madsen very closely resembled the Sonnie Black character. I don't care whther he looks Italian or not. He lloks like a vicious and smart gangster and gangster boss.

I don't think the film-makers cared much about portraying the 'real' guy acccurately. Whatever Madsen brought to the role, that was HIS character.
Believing him as the real guy is secondary to buying him as the character he is playing. I believed him as the character he was playing. Sort youngish, imposing and crazy, coming up into a role in the family that was new to him, and him putting a stamp on it, doing things his own way.

I totally agree with you about the intensity and scariness of Michael Madsen in this filmOn a level with the mesmerising scariness of Ray Liotta !

Stallone's facial paralysis and slurred speech, severely limits his vocal range. Not sure what you mean but Stallone has the same accent/voice in every one of his films and he definitely doesn't sound like a NY gangster.

By wise guy accent, do you mean the typical New York accent in many gangster films? Isn't that Stallone's original accent? Just watch Rocky and his earlier films.

Madsen had an intimidating presence which was right for the role.
There's not too many other actors that do edginess as well as Michael Madson. Once things got underway, it never occurred to me in any way that he was physically miscast for the role.

I disagree, I dont think the actor has to look like the real person. Depp didnt look like Pistone either but he did fine. As did Madsen. Madsen had an intimidating presence which was right for the role. Stallone is only 59 and Im not sure he could have pulled the wiseguy accent.

WHile I think Madsen did a great job, mainly because he's very intimidating. I read about Sonny Red and Madsen fits his description better.
And Stallone coulda worked. In the 70's he play believable gangsters. He was Frank Nitti in Capone and did a great job. It probably helped his career almost as much as Rocky did. I saw him play another gangster in a different movie, not sure of the name, but he works as a mobster. However, at this point of his career, casting Stallone woulda made the movie look like a mob spoof, like when he played Snaps Provolone in Oscar.
Asante coulda done it. But it shoulda him as Black and Madsen as Red. That said, Sonny Red's actor did a great job. And Bruno Kirby seemed like the only one out of place. And that's why he got smacked by Madsen. Just kidding on the last sentence.
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