I saw Terminator 3 and the two Matrix sequels with my dad when I was 6 years old.
Both are very light R's, a lot less violent than some PG-13 movies I've seen, and I saw many R rated movies on TV. So yeah, there's a difference between NC-17 and R.

I think it is. No reason to have an NC-17 at all IMO.

"There are some R rated movies that just barely fall on the R side of the PG-13/R line"
Frost/Nixon, anyone?
The LAST film that was released fully unrated in theatres was Hatchet II. My bosses had me standing at the auditorium doors making sure EVERY guest was 18 and over (NC 17 is No Children 17 AND UNDERNOT "No one Under 17 Admitted")
Andy=
Yeah, I remember that girl. She was a ho for sho'. (The 40 Year Old Virgin)

There are some R rated movies that just barely fall on the R side of the PG-13/R line. Plus, I've seen PG rated films that are much more disturbing than some R rated ones.

Basically yes, but not all distributors are represented in the MPAA.
No, but the ones who are represented effectively create a distribution cartel. In addition, even those not directly represented often have adopted the MPAA policies resulting in a very effective capability to censor which films receive any wider release.

Basically yes, but not all distributors are represented in the MPAA.

Ultimately, the real problem isn't the MPAA, it's the distributors who refuse to distribute NC-17 movies.
So you're saying don't blame the left hand of the distributors, but the right hand? The ultimate ratings are in the hands of the distributors.

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"They're probably secret so that studios or filmmakers won't be able to try to influence and corrupt the process."
Did you watch the film? Studios already influence the process! Maybe if you meant studios outside the big 7.
"It's childish to blame the MPAA"
It's childish to rationalize all of their faults away.
"when really the MPAA is voluntary."
If I put a gun to your head and tell you to do something, or I kill you, am I really giving you a choice?
"If i REALLY wanted my movie to be out there, i could bypass the system entirely and release my film as is."
And it would be seen by all of 5 people.
Required reading for theater patrons:
http://tinyurl.com/shutheeffup

They're probably secret so that studios or filmmakers won't be able to try to influence and corrupt the process. If they know the names they can try and wine and dine them to influence their decisions. But on the last note you hit hte nail on the head. If distributors and theater chains would show NC-17's the NC-17 would get wider acceptance. It's childish to blame the MPAA when really the MPAA is voluntary. If i REALLY wanted my movie to be out there, i could bypass the system entirely and release my film as is.

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Total agreement. There is a theater in my region, privately owned by a family. The owner held a press conference announcing that he would only show films PG13 and below as a way to promote family values in the community. Everyone cheered and swore they would partake of his "family friendly" venue. Within a month, the owner held another press conference and announced that those families that applauded his removal of R rated films from his theater forgot to show up for the "family friendly" films and damn near bankrupted him.
Midnight Cowboy was the only X rated film to win an Oscar and Scarface was also rated X before Stone appealed and actually won. What theater owners need to do is say to the distributors, "We'll take your films, no matter if it gets NC-17 or R." The DVD market is full of Unrated versions of films and they still fly off the shelves. That should be a clear indication that the ratings system is outdated and in desperate need of an overhaul.