I don't have a problem with "gays" (A word they co-opted to soften what they actually are - homosexuals.)
Guess you proved how easy going you are with those two assertions all by themselves.
I visited the Castro for a night last summer with my wife and saw nothing along the lines of what you say. Everyone was wonderful, and not a hint of hetro-prejudice. It was a real fun time.
But then my gay friends gave me the super secret that makes gays like you before we left home. Who would have guessed that being friendly, open and respectful could win you friends?

hadmatter, did you not read the article?
i read what you wrote. That's what I responded to.
Also, this is not anecdotal evidence as wrote where I lived and I lived there a long time.
You wrote about your experiences. That is, by definition, anecdotal evidence.
Also, "gays" like to "invade" heterosexual singles bars and engage in PDA "kiss-ins" for "shock value" yet, by law, they cannot be asked to cease, desist or leave as they will have their liquor license suspended and likely sued for Civil Rights violations, yet according to SFGate.com, "The Cafe faces no penalty or fine, but is officially on record in San Francisco as having committed discrimination."
Yet if this happened in Heterosexual Bar, the City of SF would shut them down and they would be facing Civil Rights violations.
But if a "Homosexual" bar does it, they get a slap on the wrist - no fine, no nothing. But it is "on record as having committed discrimination"
You said all this already. Repetition does not strengthen your argument.
And what's with this "safe zone" Bee Ess?
It is exactly what I said. Any group of people that is marginalized and targeted for discrimination and violence is likely to be unusually protective of any area which they regard as a safe space for members of that group. I am not supporting this idea and calling it fair, I am merely explaining why certain behaviors arise.
If "Gay" people are allowed to engage in PDA, then Heterosexual people should be allowed to do so in a "Gay" establishment.
Yes. What is your point? I already agreed with this.
Like I said, a Heterosexual couple is more than welcome to prove me wrong by going to the Castro, visiting various bars and restaurants and engaging in minor PDA - holding hands, lip on lip kissing, no tongue, showing general affection towards each other and you will hear the comments I posted above:
You will get a lot of "evil" eyes and rude comments, such as "go back to Iowa (Or some other Midwestern or Southern State), breeders"
"Breeder" is a derogatory term used by some Homosexuals used towards Heterosexuals as a slur.
Or you might hear; "Get out of 'our' neighborhood" or "Go back to Walnut Creek" or some other suburb of SF
You will likely receive poor service at a restaurant, or if you are at a bar, the bartender will likely ignore your request for drinks, or serve other people who came in after you did.
If you do get a pour, it will likely be weak.
In other words, they want you out of "their" neighborhood.
You're not welcome if you are a Heterosexual couple, especially if you display any form of PDA
Yes, you already said ALL OF THIS.
"hadmatter", how long have you lived in SF? How often have you visited the bars and eateries in the Castro? (Be specific, I know that neighborhood quite well and any attempt to Bee Ess me will be immediately "outed")
I haven't, nor did I ever claim to, so I don't know what your point is.
A more pertinent question would be, how long have YOU lived OUTSIDE of San Francisco, and how much experience do you have in the gay ghettos of anyplace other than the gayest city in America? A city like SF is certainly not representative of gay people on the whole.
I'm not "extrapolating nonsense" - I'm posting facts based on decades of truth of what I've seen with my own eyes over a number of years along with similar facts from other Heterosexual people that has progressively gotten worse and more brazen over the years.
Yes, you are characterizing all gay people based on the Castro. You are extrapolating nonsense.
Nor am I posting "generalities" as I have given specifics, including a link to an article in SFGate.com, filled with quotes of blatant discrimination, with the attitude of "this is 'our' neighborhood. Heterosexual people are not welcome here."
You are saying "Homosexuals do this" and "Homosexuals do that", based on gay patrons of gay businesses, in the gayest neighborhood in the gayest city in the entire country. Guess what? Most gay people are not currently sitting in gay bars in the Castro. You are very much posting generalities.
No different than a white neighborhood saying "this is 'our' neighborhood. Black people are not welcome here."
Despite your attempt to rationalize this blatant discrimination, it is wrong, hypocritical, and shows who the true "haters" are.
Right. But stating that all gay people are exactly like the ones that you encounter in this specific neighborhood isn't discrimination at all, yes?
Newsflash: "Homosexuals" do not own the Castro or any other district and cannot be the arbitrators of who is "allowed" to enter "their" neighborhood.
When did I ever say otherwise?
Thanks again for showing your true, intolerant colors.
That would be you, not me. I have not said anything implying support for such behavior, but thank YOU for making it clear that you are more than willing to jump to irrational conclusions.
Like I said, either too ignorant to even realize your blatant hypocrisy and double-standards, or they have an "

hadmatter, did you not read the article?
Also, this is not anecdotal evidence as wrote where I lived and I lived there a long time.
This is not an anomaly.
Also, "gays" like to "invade" heterosexual singles bars and engage in PDA "kiss-ins" for "shock value" yet, by law, they cannot be asked to cease, desist or leave as they will have their liquor license suspended and likely sued for Civil Rights violations, yet according to SFGate.com, "The Cafe faces no penalty or fine, but is officially on record in San Francisco as having committed discrimination."
Yet if this happened in Heterosexual Bar, the City of SF would shut them down and they would be facing Civil Rights violations.
But if a "Homosexual" bar does it, they get a slap on the wrist - no fine, no nothing. But it is "on record as having committed discrimination"
And what's with this "safe zone" Bee Ess?
If "Gay" people are allowed to engage in PDA, then Heterosexual people should be allowed to do so in a "Gay" establishment.
Funny how "Gays" complain about discrimination, yet they discriminate against Heterosexuals much more than the other way around.
Like I said, a Heterosexual couple is more than welcome to prove me wrong by going to the Castro, visiting various bars and restaurants and engaging in minor PDA - holding hands, lip on lip kissing, no tongue, showing general affection towards each other and you will hear the comments I posted above:
You will get a lot of "evil" eyes and rude comments, such as "go back to Iowa (Or some other Midwestern or Southern State), breeders"
"Breeder" is a derogatory term used by some Homosexuals used towards Heterosexuals as a slur.
Or you might hear; "Get out of 'our' neighborhood" or "Go back to Walnut Creek" or some other suburb of SF
You will likely receive poor service at a restaurant, or if you are at a bar, the bartender will likely ignore your request for drinks, or serve other people who came in after you did.
If you do get a pour, it will likely be weak.
In other words, they want you out of "their" neighborhood.
You're not welcome if you are a Heterosexual couple, especially if you display any form of PDA
"hadmatter", how long have you lived in SF? How often have you visited the bars and eateries in the Castro? (Be specific, I know that neighborhood quite well and any attempt to Bee Ess me will be immediately "outed")
I'm not "extrapolating nonsense" - I'm posting facts based on decades of truth of what I've seen with my own eyes over a number of years along with similar facts from other Heterosexual people that has progressively gotten worse and more brazen over the years.
Nor am I posting "generalities" as I have given specifics, including a link to an article in SFGate.com, filled with quotes of blatant discrimination, with the attitude of "this is 'our' neighborhood. Heterosexual people are not welcome here."
No different than a white neighborhood saying "this is 'our' neighborhood. Black people are not welcome here."
Despite your attempt to rationalize this blatant discrimination, it is wrong, hypocritical, and shows who the true "haters" are.
Newsflash: "Homosexuals" do not own the Castro or any other district and cannot be the arbitrators of who is "allowed" to enter "their" neighborhood.
Thanks again for showing your true, intolerant colors.
Like I said, either too ignorant to even realize your blatant hypocrisy and double-standards, or they have an "ends justifies the means" attitude and they don't care about right and wrong - just getting their way.
Perhaps some video evidence might open your ears and your eyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRxFoBSPng
"Get out of 'our' neighborhood" as Heterosexuals are chased out of the Castro and assaulted & battered.
Again, the intolerance is staggering. The Castro is not "yours" - it belongs to everyone.
It's like chasing Black people out of a White neighborhood, but the Liberal SF Board of Supervisors and Mayor see nothing wrong with this type of blatant discrimination.
Actually, I would advise Hetero couples to avoid any bars or eateries in The Castro - you just might get a little extra "surprise" in your drink/meal.
Seeing how 76% of AIDS deaths in the US are from Man/Man sex, you don't want any infected blood in your drink/meal.
I can post pages of evidence of evidence of intolerance, but people like "hadmatter" will jump thru hoops and twist him/herself into a pretzel to rationalize such blatant, appalling, discriminatory behavior.
Again, this is no different than White establishments back in the 30's and 40's refusing to serve Blacks, or a White neighborhood telling Blacks to "get out of our neighborhood"
No difference at all, except the appalling hypocrisy of the "gay" community and their enablers in the media.

What a shame. EVERYONE should be asked to leave for engaging in any form of PDA, regardless of gender distribution of the folks involved.
Homosexuals have a problems with Heterosexuals. They are far less tolerant of Heterosexuals than Heterosexuals are of them.
That might be true in your particular experience of gay bars in a gay neighborhood, but the generality you've extrapolated is nonsense. You clearly do not understand the difference between being generally intolerant, and having a proprietary attitude toward what a marginalized group views as a safe zone. The attitudes you describe may well exist in these safe zones, where gay people want to interact exclusively with other gay people. It's not true of homosexual attitudes toward heterosexuals in general.
I am the sod-off shotgun.

The OP posted; "Anyone who has a problem gays is ignorant or evil."
Another (ignorant) "tolerant" lefty speaking?
Go visit the Castro District with your Girlfriend and kiss her in public, or go to a bar or a restaurant and do the same.
Holds hands with her. Kiss her. It doesn't have to be tongue wrestling, just a little lip on lip action for a few seconds. Show some PDA
You will get a lot of "evil" eyes and rude comments, such as "go back to Iowa (Or some other Midwestern or Southern State), you breeders"
"Breeder" is a derogatory term used by some Homosexuals towards Heterosexuals as a slur.
Or you might hear; "Get out of 'our' neighborhood" or "Go back to Walnut Creek" or some other suburb of SF
You will likely receive poor service at a restaurant, and if you are at a bar, the bartender will likely ignore your request for drinks.
If you do get a pour, it will likely be weak.
In other words, they want you out of "their" neighborhood.
You're not welcome there if you are a Heterosexual couple, especially if you display any form of PDA
I was born and raised in San Francisco, and I also lived half a block from the intersection of 20th Street and Diamond Street, 4.5 Blocks from the "heart" of the the Castro (18th & Castro) for many years in a cool old Victorian, which is now probably worth a couple of Million today. (I'll have to look it up on Zillow)
There was a corner store at the NW intersection of 20th & Diamond, with a pay phone outside back in the 70's
IDK if it's still there.
I remember the eerie sound Sutro Tower would create in high wind conditions.
Cool and creepy at the same time.
Some of the bars I remember were "The Elephant Walk" "The Pendulum" and "The Midnight Sun"
"The Midnight Sun" (Or was it "The Elephant Walk?) had a prime location - the SW corner of 18th & Castro.
The "24 Divisadero" bus used to stop right in front of it and probably still does even if the bar is gone or has a different name.
Like most bars, they are probably long gone or renamed as its been a while since I last lived there.
I used to take the "24 Divisadero" bus and either walked home or transferred at 18th & Castro and took the "37 Corbett" bus, which dropped me off half a block from home.
Before you say "It's only 4.5 blocks" be aware it's all uphill and very steep.
Not a walk you want to make after working all day, especially in the rain.
There was also an "ARCO" gas station across from the bank at the intersection of Market and Castro.
IDK if it is still there either.
I think it was on technically on 17th Street, which has a long uphill with various side streets.
If you drive 17th street all the way to the end going uphill to the West, you'll end up in the Haight-Ashbury District.
Obviously, only someone very familiar with SF and with the Castro would know the above details. I could post more, but only the most skeptical would require that I do.
I don't have a problem with "gays" (A word they co-opted to soften what they actually are - homosexuals.)
Homosexuals have a problems with Heterosexuals. They are far less tolerant of Heterosexuals than Heterosexuals are of them.
Like I said, go visit the Castro with a lady friend and engage in some PDA (Public Display of Affection) in various bars and restaurants.
You'll experience "evil" - discrimination, ignorance, name-calling and basically being ignored by servers and/or harassed into leaving "their" neighborhood.
Again, this is from personal experience from someone born and raised in SF that lived in the outer Castro. I guess they call it "Eureka Valley" or some Bee Ess like that these days.
And this is not just anecdotal evidence either. It's well-known among those in SF, but the local media won't mention it.
I did find one instance of the local media reporting on a "Gay" bar ejecting a Heterosexual couple for engaging in a PDA.
Excerpt:
"As for 'The Cafe' changing our policy on straight people making out, this will not change," he wrote. "They will still be asked not to, once. If they don't like it, they can leave. This is a gay bar and they are the guests of our community."
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/e/a/1997/03/09/NEWS16113.dtl&ao=all#ixzz1wmZkR2bm
The blatant discriminatory quotes in the article are appalling.
They can't even see their own hypocrisy.
Ironically, "gays" will go the Heterosexual singles bars on weekends and engage in heavy, prolonged PDA for shock value, knowing that if they are asked to cease and desist, the bar will have their liquor license suspended and they will be hit with a large fine, but "The Cafe" did not get hit with either.
And it appears to be standard practice to eject Heterosexual couples in Copenhagen "Gay" bars for PDA (Google it.)
If it weren't for double-standards, liberals wouldn't have any standards at all.

Because if I bothered to point out the spelling and grammatical errors of every misguided imbecile on these boards, I would never get around to pointing out the much bigger, more significant stupid things they're saying.
I am the sod-off shotgun.

how the hell did it take a year and four pages of comments for someone to finally point that out?
Honestly this thread is so "American" that it makes me sick

because of grammatical reasons

Anyone who has a problem gays is ignorant or evil.
Anyone who has a problem with someone because of his or her sexual preference is at least the first of those.did you not know this before?
When congress is controlled by homosexuals who are passing laws that you must be one toothen you have a point.
And just so you know a gay friend of mine once described me as the most confirmed hetro he'd ever met. Live and let live.

This message has been deleted.

Agreed. It's called equality. They are people who work and pay their taxes just like everybody else. Plain and simple, they deserve to be treated with every bit as much respect as you want to be treated with.

It shows a sense of immaturity. That's why.

I couldn't help but laugh when the OP wrote: 'it's just the way I am'. Implying that he has no aspirations for personal improvement whatsoever.
Being anti-gay is socially unexeptable because being racist, or sexist is unexceptable.

Its "cool" to be yourself, all these people speaking out towards gay people, are just encouraging them to be themselves, just like you, I bet if everyone allowed your discrimination, you'll feel pretty cool:D
Yeah,anyone who's got a problem with Gays has an IQ of 2, obviously being gay is SOMETHING your BORN with, Transgendered proves that, besides, being Gay never changes the same person you were before, maybe your just referring to a stereo type. Thats like saying all black people can't swim, or Mexicans love to mow lawns, or every white girl is dumb, ALL STEREO TYPES.

Sometimes we do manage to eventually get things right. There is a collective feeling now that homosexuality is not something which homosexual people can do anything about and it doesn't hurt anyone so they don't deserve to be treated badly for it. The only people who are left with problems over it are strict religious types and people who just are not very intelligent. If you are a prejudiced person, you are most likely a nincompoop. A lot of people are sick of the religious types in general because of how terribly they have acted over the past couple of decades with covering up child molestations and other sexual acts and believing that gay people deserve to get AIDS. Look at my signiature link.
http://www.ranker.com/list/top-10-anti-gay-activists-caught-being-gay/ joanne

"IN several posts I have been told I was a bigot and homophobe for adamantly disagreeing with homosexuality. I never condemed it or lowered myself to name calling though I surely have been maligned.
In truth, I have a few gay friends and several emplyees who go home with my signature on their checks every other week. As long as they are making me money, I pay them. But my view of homosexuality is still that it is a disease and one that can be treated for those that are motivated to change."
I don't think that being gay is a disease, just that people being uncomfortable and questioning homosexuality are quickly becoming in the minority.
THE DARK KNIGHT RISES trailer -

"There you go! Finally some logic in here, someone gets it!"
Finally someone gets what?

There you go! Finally some logic in here, someone gets it!
THE DARK KNIGHT RISES trailer -

There's also straight people that will stay in a straight relationship for years then wake up one day and decide they're done "with that". It goes both ways.
I think asking why a gay person likes who they like is kind of like asking you (assuming you are male) why you like women.
You're attracted to women because you are.. that's just the way it is for you correct?
It's the same for us. I like women because I do, I can't tell you why, it's the way it is.
Just because you're slightly more accepting than other homophobes doesn't make you any less of a bigot.

I think ikillen is just a nom de plume for Michelle or Marcus Bachmann.
I don't have Bieber fever. I have Bieber nausea.

What specifically are you referring to that he stated? We just went through everything for you in this thread, and replied to everything you brought up. What did we miss before?

I was referring Ikillen's mentality on homosexuality.
THE DARK KNIGHT RISES trailer -

"I have a few gay friends But my view of homosexuality is still that it is a disease and one that can be treated for those that are motivated to change."
LOL. The definition of the term 'friend' certainly becomes suspect when someone says things like this out of both sides of their mouth. No doubt you are all great pals, who wouldn't want to be friends with someone who holds them in such high regard.
I can give you the benefit of the doubt though, you may very well have gay friends who have the lowest self-esteem possible.
People can change their sexual behavior for any number of reasons. Over any amount of time. But they can't change their sexual orientation, whether it's straight or gay. That's all your example shows, and any LICENSED therapist will tell you exactly what I just did. Even if you want to take the "treatable disease" route, it's no different than alcoholism. A recovered alcoholic is still an alcoholic, they just don't drink anymore. The same goes for anyone who stops engaging within their true sexual orientation. And beyond various religious dogma, there is nothing inherently unhealthy nor incorrect about homosexual orientation or expression, it's strictly your random opinion.

You are so silly. No, it is not Jesus or the act of any divintiy. It is therapy. Preachers make terrible therapists.
Look, I am not going to go into a litanny of arguments to convince you that Same Sex Attraction (SSA) is treatable and correctable. There are so many spontaneous occurences that most of you know someone that has indulged but found their way to healthy sexual attractions.
In my practice, I have met several that have told me they lived in a SSA relationship for several years, only to awake one day and discover that they were done "with that" and returned to healthy heterosexual relationships. Understanding their patterns led me to realize that this was a characterlogical anomaly, rather than something hard-wired.