I loved how MJ just screwed up the social system! I would have added something myself here but I don't feel any need, you'r text nailed it perfectly! I would probably only be able to repeat what you have already written.
When the choice is between a American and a Russian film, always choose the latter.

Face it tiger, we fans had hit the jackpot with this show!

• Gothamite #4
  I've learned that it's OK to be flawed - Winona Ryder

I have said it before but I can't repeat it enough this version of MJ was incredible.
Same thought here. I never liked the MJ in the Raimi movies, but I loved the MJ in this series although it's too bad we never got to learn more about her life. She's such a charismatic individual. What I really love is how she has her own mind and breaks social conventions and expectations. That only made her more awesome. I loved how Sally was getting frustrated with the 'normal' social rules being broken. In her mind: Peter = nerd. MJ = hot popular girl. Peter + hot popular crowd is impossible. Then MJ came along and screwed up that entire system instead of following Sally's simplistic narrow-minded social system. MJ knew she was an individual with her own thoughts and interests and that she belonged in a category of her own.
I miss this show so badly.

I can't help the fact that I hate the continuity and character depth of almost every show I watch these days All thanks to Spectacular Spider-Man! I have not seen Beast Wars but I guess I could look it up, I'm always looking for new interesting series.
Yeah I hated the art style of Spectacular Spider-Man, I have obviously not listed it as a flaw since it's entirely subjective but it took me several episodes of hatred before I could focus all my attention on the rest of the show rather than being busy hating the style. I do think that the style causes a major problem when it comes to my attempts to get people to watch it. Most people see the style and says "That's just for children" before even giving it a chance.
I love Cameron's idea! It's butchers the whole Spider-Man mythos on such a fantastic level. Whilst I hated Raimi's films for doing just that Cameron brings it into such a new level that it would have been so bad that it's good, such as the films of Uwe Boll or Ed Wood or the simply The Room. (That's my favorite "so bad it's good" film.)
Here is the treatment.
Let me summarize the best parts if case you don't have the energy to read the whole thing:
Peter harbors a secret crush on Mary Jane but she's together with Flash who is verbally and physically abusive. One day when Peter sees Flash hitting her he goes berserk and it's time for a brutal and sustained beating. Flash get's smashed against his car X times and Peter proceeds to pick up a signpost and smash the car to pieces with it. He then tells Flash to stay away from Mary Jane. (No "With great powers, there must also come great responsibility speech here!)
Elector (Called Carl Strand in this version) has a girlfriend who he electrifies since he can't touch people. (Cameron portrayed him kind of like Rogue, a man with the Midas touch.)
Sandman has sex with a hooker and she complains that about sand in the bed.
Peter spies on Mary Jane and discovers that her life is a living hell and that her party girl image is just a facade. (Hey! Cameron actually understood Mary Jane! That's awesome!)
Peter get's screwed over by his manager and Uncle Ben dies because of it. (Yes, this is were Raimi got that stupidity from!)
Mary Jane is about to get raped by some punks and Peter (as Spider-Man) saves her. (Yes, this is were Raimi got that from as well)
Strand (Electro) tries to get Peter to join him saying that they are superhumans and that they should stick together. Peter refuses and they become mortal enemies. (Very beep original!)
Here comes to best part
Peter (as Spider-Man) takes Mary Jane to the top of the Brooklyn Bridge, he hold a monologue about the mating rituals of the Spider and proceeds to lift her shirt and have sex with her. Mary Jane is beaming in school the next day so Peter was apparently a fantastic lover, despite the fact that it was his first time
Strand comes back with a monologue about how regular people hates heroes and how you are either a predator or a victim in the evil world. He has kidnapped Mary Jane to get Peter's attention. Strand kills Mary Jane by kissing her. Peter's reply?
"I'll kill you! Motherfvcker! You hear me?! You're dead, you sick bastard!"
Strand brings Mary Jane back to life with a defibrillator and the final battle begins. Both Strand and Sandman dies. Mary Jane tells Spider-Man that she loves him having no idea of his real identity.
Mary Jane proceeds to tell Peter that she loves him during the next day of school. Peter reveals to her that he's Spider-Man and they kiss. (How lucky for Mary Jane that the two men she was in love with at the same time ended up being the same person!)
When the choice is between a American and a Russian film, always choose the latter.

I can watch any animated series now, but I'll always feel the urge to compare it with Spec Spidey. BTW, did you see Beast Wars?
I guess we didn't find the fights so appealing because of the art style, it was kinda weird to see them fighting.
care to discuss Cameron's idea? Electro and Sandman done properly could've worked, I would've wanted Scorpion too and not Marko.

• Gothamite #4
  I've learned that it's OK to be flawed - Winona Ryder

Norman Osborne was great! I think that he was on the level with John Houston's villain in Chinatown. He was so cold about everything that it was almost scary to watch, in a good way. Just like in Chinatown.
I have said it before but I can't repeat it enough this version of MJ was incredible. Unlike every previous incarnation of the character this one actually captured the girl of the original comics. I would really have loved to see her background in this show though, I think they could have stuck with her comic origin of having an abusive alcoholic for a father. What I love so much about MJ is that she is just as damaged as Peter Parker. They just show it in different ways and that's why they work so well together.
Peter has the trauma of losing his parents and he gets bullied in school every day for being a nerd. When he finally got his reward (Spider-Powers) he got to cocky and lost Uncle Ben. He always be reminded that he lost his uncle because of his own selfishness hence overcompensating on empathy and caring much more about other people than himself. He blames himself for everything that's wrong in the world and needs the constant feel of guilt and responsibility.
MJ grew up in a broken home with an abusive father who turned to the bottle. When she couldn't take it anymore she simply shut all emotions off. All she wanted was to be loved and cared about but when she couldn't have that she choose plan B, to live completely without emotions for other people. Hence the facade of the careless party girl who only want's to have fun and who ignores all responsibility.
They are both deeply damaged and traumatized individuals but they face their problems opposite ways which I find extremely interesting.
I do love how "nice" MJ comes off, she rejects guys left and right but she does it in such a nice way that it's impossible to get angry with her. I wish more girls could be like that in real life.
I thought the action sequences were the worst part of the show, perhaps it's the style but I can't help thinking that they used up all energy on the characters and story instead of saving some for the action. I do love the Gangland fight though, it might be the best one of the show (although I think I prefer symbiote Spider taking down the Sinister Six.)
When the choice is between a American and a Russian film, always choose the latter.

I agree I greatly enjoyed Final Curtain and MJ and Pete at the dance before that. Norman here was a sly fox not a good man who did things badly like the Neil Ross version. MJ also was more like the comics, a partygirl who is nice to everyone.
Tombstone also was one of my favourites "what we grown-ups call irony", the Goblin "We all wear masks" and the big fight with opera music playing in the gangwar episode was too cool, one of my favorite fight scenes from any series.

• Gothamite #4
  I've learned that it's OK to be flawed - Winona Ryder

I'll hold future comments about Batman Beyond back for the time being then.
I LOVED Final Curtain! That episode is in my opinion one of the all time great season finales when it comes to cartoons. (The best one on a technical level is obviously "Epilogue" - The season finale of the first season of Justice League Unlimited but that's another story.)
I heard a fantastic thing once, there was according to the people who watched Final Curtain when it premiered an error with the sound so most of the viewers had to watch the episode without the dialogue or perhaps without any sound at all. (I never figured that out and I watched the whole cartoon on YouTube.) The incredible fact is that the episode was said to work almost perfectly as a silent one. Some viewers even believed that it was meant to be silent. Now when I do think about it it would be amazing to see a completely silent episode in a future cartoon. I mean Marvel writers had a silent month once were no dialogue was allowed. The silent Ultimate Spider-Man comic was among my favorites of the whole run. The problem is obviously the target audience, I don't think that most 10 year old boys the executive producers want to target have the patience and concentration required to enjoy a silent episode. Hell many adults don't*
*This is my being Swedish according to some people. It's said that Swedes understand silence in a way other people don't. The Swedish director Tomas Alfredson was hired to direct "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" because of being Swedish. The producers wanted a director who would understand silence. I'm not sure if I can believe it though, I think it's an unfair generalization to claim that Swedes should have some sort of better understanding of silence just because of their nationality. I think that preferences like this are completely individual.
The interaction between Peter and Gwen was incredible and I could easily see how it would work out great even without sound but the best part was without any doubt Peter breaking up with Liz Allan. It felt so realistic! Liz is a popular girl who lowered her social status by dating a nerd like Peter. If she get's dumped by Peter her reputation will be ruined for life. She has no choice but to pretend that it was she who got tired of him to save her reputation.
I had a very similar experience back when I was 18. I was having a public fling with this girl I meet. I think I was at least mildly interested in trying out a relationship with her but she made it clear a few days later that she had regrets about what we did and that she wanted it to stay as a one time thing. It was thus pretty clear that she meant that she would be happy if we spent the rest of our lives without ever interacting again. I spent a lot of time afterwards making sure that all my friends "knew" that it was I who did not want her and not the other way around. I'm definitely not proud of it but I did what I had to do in order to save my social status in the group.
The scene were Liz cries really saddened me. I always wanted for (and knew that) Peter to (would) end up with Gwen. It's still sad to see Liz because she's not evil, she was a totally great girl who was undeserving of the heartbreak. That was what made it so great! A very common problem (especially in awful romantic comedies) is that the person who is going to get dumped always needs to be a cheater or a unsympathetic person in general as to justify it. Spectacular Spider-Man did a fantastic job steering clear of the route, the only character who were plain evil was Sally Avril and even she showed hints of a little humanity near the end.
The best episode to capture the social rules of a teens life is the one were Peter takes MJ to the dance. I don't think that I have ever seen any other scene even closely as realistic as that. The problem is that I always fail to explain who the scene is so great. It's like I have too much to say about it and I usually end up screwing up because of it.
When the choice is between a American and a Russian film, always choose the latter.

Umm, stop yourself please. I last watched it several years ago, I really want to see all of them like it's something new
What do you think of TSSM's FInal Curtain?

• Gothamite #4
  I've learned that it's OK to be flawed - Winona Ryder

I think it's the most interesting episode of the cartoon. A problem with most episodes is that they are extremely easy to follow and that everything is black and white. This one makes a huge exception from that rule.
Yes Melanie screws Batman (not Terry!) over but she does it for her family. Not because of profit but because she despite everything that happened still loves her parents for being her parents.
Dana realize her mistake seeing that everything was a "test" and gets really mad but Terry (Batman) arrives just in time to miss this. I think this is what it all comes down too. The story might have turned out differently if Terry could understand Melanie fully but he arrived at the scene too late and he blew his second chance as well by throwing away her note.
The last scene is extremely predictable but it still saddened me. (I kept thinking "I don't want to be right, don't you dare throw it away Terry!" - Which quickly turned into "No! I hate it when I'm right!") In the end it boils down to the whole "femme fatale vs the girl next door" dilemma.
Melanie is hotter, more exciting and she can keep up with Terry's life as Batman in a way that Dana never could but she has the huge drawback of having betrayed Terry in the past as well as being part of a family of villains.
Whilst Dana is extremely boring she is nice, reliable and safe as well. She's the kind of woman a man usually want in the long run.
You had seen the complete cartoon before right? Because I was about to write about his third and final encounter with Melanie but I stopped myself for the moment.
That said I will always think that he should have chosen Melanie. My usual comment when people ask me about Batman Beyond is "Terry should have chosen Melanie and that's all I have to say about that."
When the choice is between a American and a Russian film, always choose the latter.

I just saw the second Melanie episode and liked it. But why did Terry have to throw the note just because he was with DANA? Ugh!

• Gothamite #4
  There's no room for pity in this business, babe.

I can't remember a robot episode so for a second there I almost considered looking it up again but then I came to my senses. I think I might have blocked it all out. (Well except for Jennifer Hale doing MJ, Karen (she was hot!) and the milf who's house Peter rents a room in.
I have blocked the cartoon out other than that though!
When the choice is between a American and a Russian film, always choose the latter.

I kinda liked that robot episode in Spidey unlimited too (again sorry for bringing it up)

• Gothamite #4
  There's no room for pity in this business, babe.

I remember when I went to school every day I'm glad that's over. I'm having lectures twice a week at most these days, I have probably forgotten what it's like to be in school from 8 to 15:30 five days a week.
Batman Beyond season 1 is sure better than season two. My favorite episode of season two is without doubt Once Burned since Melanie returns, another episode I really liked was Zeta. (I'm a huge fan of robot philosophy.)
When the choice is between a American and a Russian film, always choose the latter.

I'm currently going to school, playing various games, writing, reading and watching Batman beyond. Not all at the same time of course.
. Like I said I'll go for TSSM and then maybe Young Justice.
I've noticed the difference in quality between seaons 1 and 2 in BB almost immediately, but it's still good.

• Gothamite #4
  There's no room for pity in this business, babe.

Efram Zimbalist Jr was the real Doc Ock. I guess Alfred Molina worked in a live action movie but it was a mistake to copy him to a cartoon. (People really need to learn the fact that things that work in one story telling medium doesn't necessarily have to work in the others.)
I'll keep them name of Eerie, Indiana in mind for later. I'm watching Avatar: The Last Airbender right now but I'm always looking for more shows with that episode length. (I might haven mentioned it in an above post but If I didn't) I start every morning with drinking a cup of hot chocolate and watching an episode from an usually) animated series. That's how I got through the whole DCAU one episode at a time, one cartoon at a time. (It's actually a really fascinating way to watch, before I started doing it I would usually just watch X episode here and Y episodes there.)
When the choice is between a American and a Russian film, always choose the latter.

They shouldn't have copied Alfred Molina's Doc Ock look to a tee in TSSM, I liked Efrem Zimbalist, Jr better, even with the armor he had the classic haircut and goggles.
If you ever have the time and like comedy-horror-kids shows, you should give Eerie, Indiana a closer look. Like I said before it's not just about nostalgia in my case, the show holds up well.
When I heard that Sam Raimi directed Spider-Man I was like "What??? the guy with the evil dead and Joxer from Xena??" I wonder why did he get the job anyway, no disrespect to him or his work.

• Gothamite #4
  There's no room for pity in this business, babe.

No I'm afraid I haven't watched that. The popular "foreign" series in Sweden were all for some reason Australian.
Raimi should definitely have stuck with Evil Dead, I wouldn't dislike him today if he had done that and he wouldn't have ruined Spider-Man for a whole generation of kids. (The worst part is that Spectacular Spider-Man used his crap for Peter's background. I'm sure that it was the executive producers at Sony who forced it on the story editor but it's just as bad anyways)
When the choice is between a American and a Russian film, always choose the latter.

By the way, did you ever watch the kids' horror-drama-family series Eerie, Indiana in Sweden? Starring Omri Katz and later Jason Marsden. It was pretty good and now it's just how I remembered it. Topbey had a guest appearnce in one of those and I liked him better than his role in Raimi's films.
Raimi was never right for Spidey IMO. he should've stuck to Xena and Evil Dead.

• Gothamite #4
  There's no room for pity in this business, babe.

I will gladly do that. I'm just happy to know that their are others who can't stand his hackwork either.
When the choice is between a American and a Russian film, always choose the latter.

Let's quit talking about Raimi, please. He's in the same league as Spidey Unlimited for me. Even Nick Hammond was more likable and had charisma as Peter Parker than Tobey Maguire.

• Gothamite #4
  There's no room for pity in this business, babe.

I couldn't stand Raimi's version at all. I find it funny and sad at the same time how people would praise Raimi as a god only to start calling him a hack after the release of Spider-Man 3. I loathed the films from the very beginning.
I could probably rant for days but a few of the highlights in my hatred includes:
Raimi did not "get" Peter Parker as a person at all which is clearly shown in his origin. In the 616 universe Peter has a chance to stop a robber and he doesn't. The reason is that all the years of bullying has made him a selfish person who only looks out for himself thinking that he is all alone in the world. That cost him Uncle Ben, the man who had been like a father to him ever since his parents died. I think the most important and overlooked trait when it comes to Peter is guilt. The guilt he feels could probably compare to that of my house god Franz Kafka. Or as Mary Jane summaries it in "Soul of the Hunter" (Awful comic, but it had a few really good scenes.)
Mary Jane: Peter Parker You were born guilty! Kraven may have been your enemy but by god, the man killed himself! And somewhere inside you is a voice saying: "I could have stopped him. I could have saved him."
Peter: No. Never.
Mary Jane: Yes. Always.
That's what's makes you you. That's one of the reasons why I love you. There's a part of you that wants to save the whole world. That want's to take all the suffering out there and magically web it all away.
But it doesn't work that way Peter. And if you don't get some help with this it's going to eat away at you. At us.
Man No one understood Spider-Man like DeMatteis Why did he ever quit the title!?
The film on the other hand gave Peter a chance to stop a robber that robbed a man who just screwed Peter over half a minute before, the fact that Peter did not stop him had nothing to do with selfishness but with him being a human being
And don't even get me started on how the trilogy took a huge dump all over my girl Mary Jane
Aunt May did not help either. "How Spider-Man 3 should have ended" summarised her role in the films perfectly:
Peter: I'm gona ask MJ to merry me.
Aunt May: Oh, this reminds me of a long and boring story of you're uncle Ben and I which will only make you feel miserable and make the wrong decision.
When the choice is between a American and a Russian film, always choose the latter.

Cool, I eat pizza every Sunday or Sat. myself.
And yes I would've loved to see that J Cameron Spidey film too, I never liked Raimi's that much.
There's no room for pity in this business, babe.

Kevin Conroy is AWESOME! He's will always be the "real" Batman for me.
I can't say that I ate too much Swedish food, I live just a few minutes (by foot) from a great and extremely cheap pizza place as an example so I eat pizza every Friday.
When the choice is between a American and a Russian film, always choose the latter.