Now you might find what i write a bit weird but:
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sydtherat — 18 years ago(May 11, 2007 01:47 AM)
People seem to often over-look an important aspect of Jigsaw's personality when pointing the finger of blame at him, and that is as follows:
Jigsaw has a frontal lobe tumor. The frontal lobe is the part of your brain that controls your personality, that helps with decision making and judgements. If you damage this part of your brain even minimally, it changes your personality drastically. People with frontal lobe damage have trouble relating to other people, they have trouble understanding or empathising, they find it hard to put themselves in other people's shoes, as it were.
Therefore, I refuse to believe Jigsaw is evil. He's simply unable to understand how what he does isn't the best way to teach people. He truely does believe he is doing right by 'teaching people to appreciate their lives'. I don't for a second believe he does it JUST to be a malicious psycho; he just don't understand how severe what he does to people is as he can't 'relate' to people.
Personally, I love Jigsaw, and I think the vast majority of the people he traps had it coming. Ok, its not the BEST way to go about spreading a message, but I certainly don't blame Jigsaw for it because I don't think he gets any joy out of seeing people killed. He WANTS them to survive his traps. If he wanted to just see people tortured and killed, believe me, he could do that. -
noahtenzin — 18 years ago(October 31, 2007 03:58 PM)
I think the OP and others have seized upon something being mentioned in mainstream reviews now too (like below), which is that just b/c the SAW movies are horror doesn't mean that the y have to be dumb and mindless, adn that their embrace and sustainability has a lot to do with: 1) the narrative risks they've taken, continuing to push forward the story in new ways, not just retreading, and 2) Tobin Bell tottally kicking ass!
http://shareddarkness.com/2007/10/31/saw-iv.aspx -
TNGforever — 19 years ago(February 25, 2007 12:35 AM)
Oh geez, you guys need help. Tying someone to something that you know is going to kill them, and then given them a slim 1 out of a 1000 chance to get out of it, and only 60 seconds at that, knowing they likely will not, and then doing it over and over again, that's just plan murder. This guy is a cold blooded killer!
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makulitako — 18 years ago(April 12, 2007 11:06 PM)
Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. I'm not sure if somebody said this already, but who the hell said that Jigsaw killed Jeff's daughter?
Now for the stomach-key guy, I can understand what you mean. But your knowledge of the fate of Jeff's daughter simply must mean that you are in possession of a device that can tear the very fabric of space and time as we know it, which you used to see the October 2007 release of Saw IV (that being if they really
do
kill her off in the fourth movie, information I have no knowledge of because, well, heytime machines are expensive.) -
GranRoyal — 19 years ago(April 01, 2007 11:18 PM)
I was watching Saw 1 with a friend who happens to be a lawer the "he never actualy killed someone" quote in the movie would never stand in a court of law.
All the trap set up is to kill the victim, so good old Jig is a murderer.
Dont forget you can go to jail for complicity of murder if you help someone commiting suicide. -
death-wyvern — 18 years ago(November 19, 2007 08:09 PM)
You are absolutely right. I remember about my mum telling me a true story of a person one of her work friends knew. I've shortened this to the quickest reading possible (yet enough to still get the point):
- Poor, innocent person get burgled a couple of times by the same person
- First time was when she wasn't at home, next time she was
- She starts to fear for her life
- She ends up setting up a potentially lethal trap underneath the window this person consistently breaks into.
- This trap is triggered, and sprung onto the unsuspecting burglar
- The burglar is terribly injured and maimed by the man-sized mouse trap (something like that), and hence he takes her to court and wins. The judge says she would have most likely won if she was sitting by the window with a gun instead, because then it can be deemed her life was potentially in peril.
She lost the case, had to pay the burglar out, and was detained in jail during the court proceedings. So the above poster is correct, Jigsaw would be completely liable to all of his crimes, if not moreso than cold blooded murder.
That said, it is only a movie, and I do see Jigsaw's point of view to a degree. The extreme that he takes out on people is unethical and barbaric to say the least, but these people continually beep up the choices that life has given them. For one, I DO think the fat rapist in the latest movie (which I saw last night) deserved what he got.
Riggs, on the other hand, deserved NOTHING that was done to him. The only reason I can see Jigsaw doing what he did to him is because Riggs is the anti-Jigsaw, selfless and the helper of everybody, rather than the tormentor and judge of everybody. Jigsaw was jealous that this person is so pure.
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koffeenkreame41-1 — 13 years ago(May 27, 2012 03:02 AM)
^^Agreed, Riggs definetely didn't deserve the stuff that happened to him in Saw 3, that was pretty tragic to me. Poor Riggs.
To me, he was an honorable character, same for Tapp in the first film.
"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna*beep*wit' me!" Hudson in Aliens. -
jmn080782 — 19 years ago(April 02, 2007 09:53 AM)
How is he not a murderer? By putting poison in someone's body and making them find an antedote, HE is killing them. Or by leaving someone chained to the wall with no food, that is murder. If you look at it that way, if I pull the trigger of a gun and kill someone my defense could be the gun did it. Plus, didn't he kill Danny Glover's partner in Saw 1? I guess technically no because his trap did it, but I would call that murder.
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benjamin-154 — 19 years ago(April 03, 2007 03:10 PM)
Yes how can be not be a murdere?. well in his head he is not. Noboddy who is evil think of them selves as evil, and can you really call him evil? maybe you can, but I don't think it's that simple. He claims people have a choice, and they do actually have a choice, it's just a hard choice to make. Maybe if you think of it this way you could understand what some people say when they tell you he is not a murdere: if I start a train, then jump out of it and the train drives towards you now you have the choice to move, but don't does that make me a murdere?
Now that might not make sence for some of you, but like I started the train and drove towards you so you could choose your own fate, Jigsaw starts a trap and let 5b4people choice their own fate. Now I don't say it's the excact same thing, but maybe you can understand better what some of us people mean when we say that he is not a murdere. Personally I don't know what to call him, because I don't think it's that simple not in a movie where you can fully choose for your self how to see a character. So some of you hate Jigsw and are happy he dies and some of you don't. So if you don't agree with me please spare me from sarkacem or personal oppinion about me, because that won't help a damn thing. So is he a murdere or not. is there even a final answer? I'm still saying that the SAW movies tell the tragic tale of a man nobody understand, not even Amanda, and that is heartbreaking. well if you like to analyse them like me of course. -
Deadman2319 — 17 years ago(October 29, 2008 06:04 PM)
Villan, mabye possibly, but psychopath no Psychopaths don't think rationally he can hold conversations, plan and feel love and remorse. You could hear the remorse in his voice when he was telling Amamada that he was testing her and that she failed. Not many psychopaths can feel remorse.
and he never killed anyone
"I'm not a monster I'm just ahead of the curve." ~ The Joker -
Chris-Crow — 19 years ago(February 19, 2007 04:27 PM)
he not evil, nor a killer. and not exactly a phychopath. he is not evil becuase the whole purpose of his life is to make others' lives better. yes, most of them fail but that isnt his fault. he isnt a killer because he gives them a more then grateful way to live. they just have to do something as simple as "getting out of the chains and walking out the door". sure mayb some have to go through a little pain but the punishment fits the crime. and he isnt a psychopath, he just has extreme and to-the-point views on life.
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benjamin-154 — 19 years ago(February 20, 2007 12:43 PM)
Jigsaw's goal is not a world where everyone has been tested or put through a trap, Jigsaw's goal, his dream is a world where it is not nessersary. He wants to get his message out, and he is willing to sacrefice everything for it, including his own life. The whole brain-operation-scene in SAW 3 shows us that he is willing to put himself through the same as his subjects.
He died knowing that the world will remember him as a killer, wich was the last thing he ever wanted. The subjects lost their life, but Jigsaw lost a bit more. Now that is tragedy.
Sorry if I spell like crap. -
oos_005s — 19 years ago(February 20, 2007 01:00 PM)
Yeah, but he did force people to mutilate themselves. Like that guy in the death mask trap even if he survived and "won" the game, he would have lost an eye. The other people that didn't really get mutilated, like Amanda, would just be traumatised for the rest of their lives. So yes, Jigsaw's goal was honorable, but the way he does it is wrong. True, he doesn't kill them himself, and true, he suffered a lot too, but it doesn't take away that the way he wants to achieve his goal is bad and kinda psycho.
I do agree that there is WAY more depth in Jigsaw's "killings" than in the killings of most other serial killer horror movies though. And that's why I like the character.