I dont know about anybody else, but in saw 2 when he is diagnosed with cancer, I felt really bad for him, just the look
-
ironmonkey_02 — 18 years ago(October 16, 2007 01:50 PM)
In all the comments that i read, i noticed that people are either against John or they are understanding. So i say that if you put your self in say Adams position in the first one or say the detictives son in the second or the guy who lost his son in the third. even though theese characters did not pass the tests with the exception of the son, just think of what they would have felt if they did. i think that they would have appreciated life a little more, which is all John wanted, To make them more appreciative of what they have and to relize what they have been doing wrong. I think that in order for him to help them become more aware then he had to threatin them with death. In the face of death you truely understand what you have. Which is what John learned when he tried to kill himself.
-
bRiTiShNpRoUd2590 — 18 years ago(October 27, 2007 03:18 PM)
Ok having now seen the fourth movie i understand jigsaw so much better. When you hear all of his backstory it makes sense why he ends up the way he does. Does that make what he's doing rightno, he is killing people after all. However, in some sick and twisted way all he's trying to do is make sure people don't take their lives for granted.
how do you like your little boys girls? ~Priscilla queen of the desert~ -
Lemon_Fritz-Onion — 18 years ago(October 28, 2007 09:16 PM)
"oh cop on guys!!!!jigsaw is clearly a psychopath!!we all want people to live decent lives and appreciate it, but we dont go and torture them to get the point across!he actually doesnt care if they live or die, but giving them the hope that they can live is what feeds his desire because it forces THEM to either seriously injure themselves, or die. aswell as the torture, its the panic and desperation in the victims that he enjoys.why go to such lengths by making elaborate traps and torture devices if he didnt enjoy it?to him its a game.if thats not psychopathic, i dont know what is! im not bashing jigsaw, i sympathise with him to an extent, but to say he's not psychopathic is ridiculous."
Ah, but see the traps have to be elaborate in order for people to try harder to survive. For example, if the traps he put his victims through weren't very painful then it wouldn't make them try as hard to survive. It's like, if you know your jaw is about to get ripped open then obviously your going to go to whatever extremes necessary to get out of it. And while i don't entirely agree with jigsaw, a lot of the people he's torturing deserve what they're getting. SPOILER Like in saw 4, the guy who chained women to his bed and raped them. That guy deserved what he got. Anyway, i think one of the big things people often overlook is how in the world could an old guy with cancer put these elaborate traps together and design them so perfectly. He couldn't, there is no way. But it makes for a great movie, so i still love it. -
Reinbeast — 18 years ago(October 29, 2007 12:46 PM)
It seems like most of the posts here either completely agree with what Jigsaw did or condemn him outright. I think a lot are missing the point. People are fragile and seldom so simple. Jigsaw's life DID end in tragedy. There's no denying that. He lost a child and was diagnosed with cancer soon after. These events twice shattered his heart and stripped away his sanity. It's easier to just label someone as evil and not have to think about how close to the line any one of us is at any moment. Jigsaw was not evil. He was just an innocent man who, through no fault of his own, became broken and psychotic. Don't for one minute think that it isn't easy to lose your mind. Jigsaw's goal is to teach others to cherish their lives, but I believe his particular insanity settled on physical torture because all of his torture is internal, hidden. He obsesses over the need for his victims to experience the pain he holds onto so tightly, the pain that destroyed him. Knowing these things, you have to be sympathetic. Yet, understanding the origins of the grotesquerie does not mean that you must condone it. It doesn't mean that you can't be sorry for the victims and their families, but remember that Jigsaw was a victim too.
I love this series (especially the first one for being more psychological and much less icky) mainly because Tobin plays Jigsaw with the perfect menace in his voice and sadness in his eyes. One of my favorite movie scenes ever was in Saw with Jigsaw rising at the end to that amazing score (Hello Zepp/Zepp Overture) by Charlie Clouser. IV was more like I and II, though I still had to watch some scenes through my fingers. I can watch CSI, Bones and Criminal Minds without a problem, probably because the bodies don't scream. Which is why the autopsy scene didn't make me squirm like my brother and cousin, though I would not suggest you ever invite me to a real autopsy. I loved Saw IV, but I sincerely hope any future sequels strike a better balance between mind-blowing and nauseating.
One more thing for those who don't like Saw. This is just a movie people. You don't have to watch it, unless you have to review it. Why waste the precious little free time you have commenting on something that doesn't interest you? Go play with your kids, catch up with your favorite show, read a book. Just relax and don't worry about what you can't control.
Ooh, an "I Am Legend" commercial was just on. Hope it's as good as it looks, though that doesn't happen often. -
istore01 — 18 years ago(November 17, 2007 09:18 PM)
How can anyone condone what he did? Some of you people are really misguided. At the beginning of Saw II alone, the death mask guy is unworthy to live just because he is a "snitch". Putting that kind of trap on his head is exactly the same as standing there with a gun and giving him 60 seconds to dig out his eyeball with a scalpel, or else he gets shot. Most people would end up mutilating themselves in that way if they had a bit more time, but no! They have to do it in a panicked and confused state. Is this Jigsaw's way of taking out anyone with a weaker sur2000vival instinct? Sounds like Eugenics to me.
Not to mention the 2 innocent SWAT members who get electrocuted by Jigsaw's booby trap right after this scene. How is any of that justified? Mind you, that was all in the first 15 minutes of the second movie.
They are just movies, and I really like the Jigsaw character because he isn't just a 2 dimensional villain. It boggles the mind though to see anyone condone his actions just because he's a poor old man with cancer who has "good" intentions, and because his victims are less than ideal members of society. I admit he at least took out some real scumbags, but there were a lot of victims that didn't even come close to deserving to die. -
alucard1348 — 17 years ago(October 25, 2008 11:23 PM)
I agree that he is a victim. John was a good person. Then he had to go through the traumatic experience of losing his unborn child. His life begin to fall apart. And one day he just snapped. It's like he developed a mental illness. And people with extreme mental illnesses can't really be held accountable for their actions. And to be honest, I think some people in REAL LIFE deserve to be put through jigsaw's tests. To be honest, I could make a list of people who I would love to play jigsaw's games with. The problem I would have if I had the chance to do those things to those people, is I'd probably turn out the same as Amanda. Because those specific people deserve a very painful death. That's my opinion! Examples of the kind of people that I feel deserve to die:
- Rapist
- Child rapist/molesters/killers
- Kid nappers.
Someone close to me grew up being molested and raped A LOT, and no one believed her, including her parents. Those people are the people I were referring too, including her parents. But who knows, maybe I'm just a raging psychopathic lunatic too.
-
masu_trinity — 17 years ago(October 27, 2008 11:05 PM)
No but honestly. Who really have the right to say how someone else should live their life? -_-
Stupid noob Jigsaw. He is just pissed cause things did not go as he wanted it to and now he is emo at the world and kills people and trys to justify it with a lame excuse. -
Al_X — 17 years ago(October 29, 2008 11:45 AM)
People are deemed evil primarily because of their actions, not their motives. Every "criminal" in the history of crime had some condoning motive that made them say to themselves "I'm special, my situation is special, the usual everyday moral doesn't apply to me". Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment" is a classic literary study of this subject.
C'mon people, just because someone had a sad and tragic personal history, it doesn't in any way take away from the moral wrongness of their actions. Whether we call such a person evil is beside the point - I personally think it's fruitless and even harmful - their actions are evil and shou16d0ld without hesitation be condemned.
Call it, ethics 101.
MY VOTES:
http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=15485427 -
historically_inaccurate — 17 years ago(October 31, 2008 11:52 PM)
This thread is so funny especially those people who are defending Jigsaw. I just can't believe that people would defend because IN REALITY, if this happened, we would all point our fingers at him for killing all these people. That is way there is something called the JUSTICE SYSTEM aka the LAW. You don't teach people a lesson by putting them in situation like traps or what not but you have to put them in trial. I do admire his intentions but the way he does things are EVIL and demented. In some degree, I think I would consider him as a vigilante but he is all in all a dying man who has nothing else better to do or just a totally old emo person who would rather cause some bad than good.
-
AlexMorgan13 — 17 years ago(November 02, 2008 05:36 PM)
he gives them all a choice and chance they get hurt but could still live
i mean look at Amanda, and Detective Hoffman, they survived and a couple others
others could have survived if they listened and followed the rules
his way is better than the justice system in alot of ways since his way scares people straight or they die -
Al_X — 17 years ago(November 13, 2008 05:10 AM)
Please, stop it. Apologizing for the actions of a twisted and violent SERIAL KILLER. It makes you look very bad. Face to face, no one could retain any sense in this over-the-top-silly "they're all bad people so they deserve to be tortured" -line. Well, I suppose this is what happens when you read too much into the Old Testament. Vengeful God is a pretense for holding on to your old childish omnipotent black-and-white morals.
Secondly, this Jigsaw claims he's trying to change OTHER people's lives'. He's not saying he's doing it in order to revenge something. So he's in fact admitting that the lives' belong to the persons themselves. So what right has he in forcing these people to change? Well, unless he believes to be God, I can't see any such right. And just because you THINK you're God, doesn't really make it so, now does it? Or maybe these apologists believe him to be an instrument of the Old Testament's vengeful and jealous God. If this is your God, I'm glad he's not mine.
MY VOTES:
http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=15485427
