Trump's tariffs will help the people beat their addiction while returning jobs to the US.
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/.ㅤ — 12 months ago(April 03, 2025 08:36 PM)
And you just explained the flaw in late stage capitalism. It's a race to the bottom. People will always buy what is cheapest so companies that pay their employees less will be the most successful, and the best place for cheap labor is in third world countries with no human rights where the workers are virtual slaves. The only way to compete is to become slaves to the corporate masters ourselves. The rich get richer, everyone else suffers. That's why Trump's anti-capitalist tariffs are so great. It's a victory for freedom.
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/.ㅤ — 12 months ago(April 05, 2025 11:40 PM)
Capitalism itself is the problem. That's why regulations are necessary for it to work. Unfettered capitalism will always eventually lead to negative outcomes for the majority, as you correctly identified with this thread. This is exactly what people like Bernie Sanders have been saying for years. It's great to see the smart conservatives are finally coming around. We're all Bernie Bros now.
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Innocent User — 12 months ago(April 06, 2025 01:11 AM)
I haven't proved your quack theory at all. Globalism is a problem, not capitalism itself. Cheap wages for all, or cheap wages for none. Inconsistent rules all over the planet are the problem and are what has led to the deindustrialization of the west. Trump is doing what he needs to do to combat slave labor in countries like China.
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/.ㅤ — 12 months ago(April 06, 2025 11:48 PM)
Everything you just said has been the main message of Bernie Sanders for decades. It has been the main message of Michael Moore. It is the leftist position. Conservatives are finally starting to admit the left was right.
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/.ㅤ — 11 months ago(April 08, 2025 03:09 AM)
No, and neither would you. As you correctly pointed out, the public will always buy the cheapest products regardless of the source, which incentivizes paying employees less and rewards companies that move jobs to countries wear labor is cheapest. That's what the free market does and it leads to worse outcomes for the vast majority.
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Innocent User — 11 months ago(April 08, 2025 04:19 PM)
I'm happy to let the markets decide wages. They don't, right now, so businesses simply raise their prices to offset the cost of government interference.
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Corwin — 12 months ago(April 04, 2025 10:56 AM)
There are many problems with your assertion.
First problem is that it's premised on the idea that the plan here is to leverage tariffs in the short term to get other countries to drop their tariffs and other trade blockers. That works if you are just using tariffs as a temporary tool. But Trump is a longstanding crackpot who's been talking for decades about how much he loves tariffs, i.e. he's a ****ing idiot.
Another problem of course is if you engage in economic war and political bullying with your allies they may be a smidge less eager to help you fight China if it all kicks off. Not only that, they might be tempted to trade more with China since you've been such an unreliable partner.
Third of course is that it's simply economic retardation to tariff your friends and allies instead of your adversaries. It makes you all weaker and poorer. -
Innocent User — 12 months ago(April 04, 2025 01:52 PM)
If you don't tariff your allies they'll just act as middle men for your enemies. This was proven as recently as 2016.
How do you propose the US goes about reversing de-industrialization?
If there was a global war tomorrow, how would the west sustain production of all the materiel required to defeat nations that build more ships annually than the US has since the 40s? You need a strong civilian manufacturing industry that can be converted to military the moment it's required.
We need to do something. What should we do?
I'm always wary of a view that says "he's crazy", when a whole team of economic experts have pulled this plan together. And especially when an alternative isn't offered. You at least reconize Trump's logic, surely. You may not agree with it, but do you understand his end goal?
Hoping and praying WWIII never happens is not a plan.
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Corwin — 12 months ago(April 04, 2025 11:24 PM)
I understand Trump's thinking but I think that it's fatally flawed. And the market is punishing his team of economic advisors, who are buffoons and yes-men.
I think that his end goal is to make America richer by making other countries poorer, because he only thinks in zero-sum terms.
Look – if you really are concerned about China, and not trolling about it, then I can assure you that the Western alliance is weaker than it was 6 months ago. Fact. Countries will be less willing to coordinate with the US. And all of us will be a bit poorer in a year or two. -
Innocent User — 12 months ago(April 05, 2025 07:08 AM)
I understand Trump's thinking
I think that his end goal is to make America richer by making other countries poorer
I don't think you do understand the plan. This is about manufacturing capacity and capability, and the strength of the dollar (it actually needs to be weakened slightly) while ensuring it remains the global reserve currency. There's so much going on here.
If China succeeds in usurping the dollar as reserve, the entire US economy, and that of pretty much every other industrial nation, would collapse. At that point, China rules the world without even firing a weapon.
Look – if you really are concerned about China, and not trolling about it, then I can assure you that the Western alliance is weaker than it was 6 months ago. Fact. Countries will be less willing to coordinate with the US. And all of us will be a bit poorer in a year or two.
Not true. If China is on one side, all of the west will be on the other. No amount of TDS will change that fact. Nobody wants to live on planet China. Just like in the 1930s and 40s nobody wanted to live on planet Nazi, so the west had to ally with Stalin and the communists.
And I note you haven't offered an alternative solution to the problem. I don't expect you have one. Nobody else has either, so far.
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Corwin — 12 months ago(April 05, 2025 10:35 AM)
No, that's incorrect. The truth of the matter is that if the US bullies or harms economically other Western countries the latter will be a hell of lot less willing to send their sons and daughters to fight and die in the Indo-Pacific, just in order to keep China from having Taiwan….
There's a difference between hard and soft power and Trump is pissing away the latter.
And of course there's an alternative:- Engage in free trade among allies to keep all of them wealthy and prosperous, and to further develop the industrial and high tech base in all those countries.
- All of them apply trade barriers on adversaries, and limit investment there.
- All of them invest more in their militaries, including laggards like Canada.
- Mix it together.
Has it worked before? Yes, see: fall of the Soviet states.
But what you are advocating for, the Trump approach, is an approach that is economically dumb, as evidenced by the news and as 95% of economists have indicated, and politically dumb as they turn off their allies
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Innocent User — 12 months ago(April 05, 2025 12:22 PM)
You need all 4 of those actions but:
2. All of them apply trade barriers on adversaries, and limit investment there.
Isn't working.
Where were the complaints when the EU imposed tarrifs on non-EU countries? I thought you didn't like Brexit, and said that the UK was voting for impoverishment because they would no longer benefit from free trade with the EU. You said it was stupid of the UK to do that, not that it was stupid of the EU. EU tariffs are fine, I guess, because their leadership is left wing…
Where's the consistency?
There has been no cohesive strategy for stripping China of its industrial strength while restoring it to western powers. This is Trump's attempt. We've had generations to sort this out - dozens and dozens of western leaders - yet nobody has bothered. This is what's needed now, because time is running out.
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