Entourage and Movies in General
-
Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Mark Kermode
keithmoonhangover — 10 years ago(June 28, 2015 04:28 PM)
Mark says that the Entourage movie 'objectifies' women. To say that of any fictional film is ludicrous. Does Salo objectify teenagers?
Give your head a shake Mark, it's not real mate.
If you get in bed with the devil, sooner or later you have to fvck. -
keithmoonhangover — 10 years ago(July 01, 2015 11:07 AM)
Can you not tell what I'm talking about? Do I have to explain it? OK, the characters in the movie Entourage are fictional, they do not exist, they are not real, so how can they be objectified? They can't. It's like saying Salo objectifies teenagers. Mark is talking out of his hole, and I don't mean the one on his face.
If you get in bed with the devil, sooner or later you have to fvck. -
gregjordan38 — 10 years ago(July 06, 2015 03:44 AM)
Yeah, you're right, I think the use of the word fictional threw everyone on this thread.
It's not a question of fictional or not. It's a depiction on of the way the men in this film treat the women in this film.
Something does not have to be factual for the behaviour of a character or characters to be questioned. How do you not get that. -
keithmoonhangover — 10 years ago(July 15, 2015 01:04 PM)
It is a question of fiction. The men and women in this film do not exist.
I do get it. I get that these characters are in a completely fictional environment and as such, do not behave in a real way. That's why actors play the parts, because it's not real.
Just answer me this.
Does Salo objectify teenagers?
Does Independence Day objectify aliens?
If you get in bed with the devil, sooner or later you have to fvck. -
enigmaticreature — 10 years ago(August 01, 2015 07:26 AM)
I haven't seen the film but Im pretty sure Mark knows what he's talking about. He spoke about the attitude of the whole thing being an advert for Hollywood to be the epitome of life to aim for. How everyone aspires to live that lifestyle (NOT).
When it comes to even fictional material if it has the capability of making an impression on especially the youth of today there has to be a balance between characters and concepts not just presented as stereotypes but also as being realistic human beings otherwise it loses integrity. -
keithmoonhangover — 10 years ago(August 04, 2015 02:40 PM)
That's complete bollocks, movies should not bow down to political correctness and be seen as role models. Look at loads of the movies Mark likes and you'll see all sorts of deviant behaviour in them.
I'll ask you the same questions.
Does Salo objectify teenagers?
Does Independence Day objectify aliens?
If you get in bed with the devil, sooner or later you have to fvck. -
film_for_the_future — 10 years ago(August 26, 2015 06:31 AM)
The thing he was objecting to was the glorification of such behaviour. It is about the ideas being expressed and how they are expressed. I am not sure what your Independence Day comparison means exactly, aliens aren't real and so attitudes towards them cannot be offensive in the same way. Women are real, and a film that objectifies them can be objectionable.
I haven't seen Salo but from what I gather the behaviour of the characters in it isn't presented as some kind of ideal to aspire to, whereas in this film (according to Kermode) it is. The difference is tone. So whether or not the film is real or fictionalised it is inviting the audience to indulge in the celebration of values that many people find disagreeable. -
keithmoonhangover — 10 years ago(August 27, 2015 11:17 AM)
Woman are real, but the characters in this film are not. Entourage is the story of four men in Hollywood and their exploits. It doesn't in anyway say that people should aspire to any of the behaviour in it. Salo does the same.
Let me ask another question. If a film shows someone being murdered, what the hell does that say about the moral compass of the film? Or if someone is raped?
I'll tell you. Nothing. Because it ain't real.
If you get in bed with the devil, sooner or later you have to fvck. -
enigmaticreature — 10 years ago(August 18, 2015 05:58 AM)
I haven't seen Salo so I can't comment on it. I think the Independence Day reference isn't really relevant. Aliens as a concept is wide open For interpretation as we have no true factual basis on what they are like. They are part of a plot which fuels a story with no real potential of misinterpreting the subject matter because it is purely fictional.
I can see you have a point though. I have now watched Entourage. This film is fictitous, attempting to be satirically funny on the subject matter of Hollywood and making movies and the surrounding lifestyle of all who live around it. It is a comedy in that it is meant to be funny. But I didn't feel like laughing.
I can see why Mark said what he said. Mark can rant about films that upset him. We all know that.
You are right that a film can offer different perspectives on attitudes, concepts and ideas on most things. But the problem with this film is it doesn't know what it wants to be.
I can see why Mark says its offensive in many ways. Satire in cinema works when its sharp, witty, engaging, being straightforward and permeates a sense of joviality in taking the mick out of those subjects that are getting the attention.
This just comes across as lazy, convoluted in its intentions, boring and you don't care about these characters. In fact you're more likely to dislike and despise them. They don't come across as decent human beings. They make comments about things that make them seem like self interested bigots. With them surrounded by an entourage of celebrities making what they think are funny cameos the whole piece paints a pretty vacuous and distasteful impression of Hollywood.
But of course there are people who are going to like this, most likely young and impressional people.
I could say more but I don't want to. And yes I've lost the actual reason for this post. I have better things to do -
keithmoonhangover — 10 years ago(August 18, 2015 12:11 PM)
I've got no issue with people not liking the film. Mark, you or anyone else.
Point is, it's impossible to objectify someone that doesn't exist. Salo, a movie which Mark likes, is about teenagers being tortured and sexually abused. Does Mark lambast it because it objectifies people? Does he hell. Loads of movies he likes objectify fictional people, but he doesn't bring that up and nor should he, because it's not real.
Political correctness/awareness has no place in fictional cinema. Movie characters shouldn't all do the right thing all the time. They should be able to be racist, sexist, inappropriate people. They shouldn't have to conform to social norms.
If you get in bed with the devil, sooner or later you have to fvck. -
enigmaticreature — 10 years ago(August 18, 2015 12:37 PM)
Mmmmmmm I don't know. Can you not objectify a race of people in a movie using fictitious characters?
Say a woman is demeaned or humiliated in a film for being a woman. If it is done with purpose to the theme of the film to make a point then the act isn't justified but represented for its intolerant nature towards a fellow human being or race and the viewer should realise that in the course of watching the film.
If however there is no purpose to the progression of the film in such a situation taking place then putting it into the film seems pointless unless you are wishing to express an opinion on that subject. If you do so isn't there a risk to upsetting those type of people even though it is only done so using fictional characters? -
keithmoonhangover — 10 years ago(August 19, 2015 11:29 AM)
Yeah, but it's not real. The act of objectifying isn't happening, because it's fiction. I'm a writer/director and I recently made a conscious decision to make one of my characters a racist. That doesn't make me a racist, it doesn't make anyone involved in the film (when it gets made) a racist, it doesn't make it a racist film and it doesn't make the actor a racist. The character might be a racist, but he's 100% fictional, a creation, something I just made up. He also objectifies women.
What do you think?
If you get in bed with the devil, sooner or later you have to fvck.