I've never seen anything in she's been in. All I know is that she's Judy Garland's daughter.
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jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 12:05 AM)
'Marrying two gay men in a row"???? NOT. #1 Peter Allen, yes. #2 Jack Haley, not. #3 Mark Gero, not. #4 David Gest rumor only; and only then because he seems to be creepy in general, and some people like to equate being gay with being creepy (NOT). So unless you have personally had gay sex with either #1,2,or 3, you might do well to refrain from perpetuating mere rumor. Come to think of it, part of the reason some people make fun of Liza is because they pay too much attention to the people who are perpetuating the rumors'
Would you settle for the word 'bisexual".
Her mother did the same thing with two men,including Liza'a father.
What's even more important is 60 yr old women who marry men 20 yrs their junior and trust them,. Now that's called: naive. -
bullandbetty — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 01:47 AM)
"Her mother did the same thing with two men,including Liza'a father."
Yes, as did Liza's grandmother before Judy. (BTW, who was Judy's other gay/bisexual dalliance?)
But where do you get so much "bisexuality" in Liza's case? Peter actually was pretty much gay, as far as I can tell. It just wasn't as easy to accept in oneself nor admit to others back in 1967. Being gay but marrying someone of the opposite sex does not a bisexual make. As a matter of fact, quite common back in the day.
Who else you think was "bisexual?" Jack Haley, Jr.? Uh, I'd like to see some documentation on that; or even just hearsay. Mark Gero? Uh, don't think so there eithe5b4r. David Gest? Who the hell knows and, furthermore, who the hell cares? As Liza herself jokes in her usual self-deprecating way she was "recovering from encephalitis, for chrissakes!" When she contracted this life-threatening virus in 2000, doctors told her she might never walk or talk again. Then in ~October 2001 she meets Gest. Six months later they marry. You think it was mere naivety? Cut the lady some slack. How many brain cells you think you might have sacrificed under the same circumstances? Most likely she was not entirely in control of her life so soon after her illness and also most likey found it quite alluring to have someone enter her life who could take control and not only get her back on the road to recovery, but to a full return to her career.
And for the record, Liza was 53 when she married Gest, who is a mere 7 years her junior a far cry from your exaggerated "20 yrs."
Back to you. -
jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 11:37 AM)
But where do you get so much "bisexuality" in Liza's case? Peter actually was pretty much gay, as far as I can tell. It just wasn't as easy to accept in oneself nor admit to others back in 1967. Being gay but marrying someone of the opposite sex does not a bisexual make. As a matter of fact, quite common back in the day.
If her husband is engaging in sex with her,doesn't that a bisexual make(?)
A man who is "pretty much gay" wouldn't be having sex wth a woman.
People get confused and think being gay is a choice,as in "I like sex with men and woman, but I like it with men more".
People who are straight are not remotely interested in the same sex,why can't it be true for homosexuals?
I didn't comment on Jack Haley or Mark Gero,that was another user.
Thanks. -
bullandbetty — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 12:50 PM)
"If her husband is engaging in sex with her,doesn't that a bisexual make(?)"
My point of view is that oftentimes usually due to social pressure and/or internalized homophobia a person might marry a person of the opposite sex, but not really "want" the sex part because they are essentially attracted to the same sex. I believe that two people can love each other, be best friends, and even feel like soulmates and therefore marry on the basis of all that but still not be attracted sexually.
As for Liza and Peter, well I can't know. But now I am possibly going to have to eat most of my preceeding words, because you have forced me into reviewing my "research," and in doing so found the 1996 interview Liza did with "Advocate" magazine. She says she had no idea he was gay until three weeks into the marriage even though they had been living together for two years! when she walked in on the evidence. Furthermore (and here's where I begin the proverbial eating of the words), she says, "We were great friends, we adored each other, and we had a wonderful sex life." Peter's not around for me to ask if he felt the same about the latter. But as far as I've ever heard, he never had another woman.
Can we call a stalemate? Or are you going to demand a full and grovelling retraction of my entire exb68pose?
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jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 02:04 PM)
M'y point of view is that oftentimes usually due to social pressure and/or internalized homophobia a person might marry a person of the opposite sex, but not really "want" the sex part because they are essentially attracted to the same sex. I believe that two people can love each other, be best friends, and even feel like soulmates and therefore marry on the basis of all that but still not be attracted sexually.'
I think it's positive to discuss; we are not arguing
Here is the confusion: there seems to ne a form of double standard.
If 2 people marry,and don't have sex,then of course the husband can be a full-fledged homosexual.
But if they do have sex, the physical sexual-act is not something a true-homosexual can so,in the reciprocal-way a true hetrosexual couldn't.
I don't believe we are degrees of "bisexual", l16d0ike some people claim.
Now,if Peter Allen and Liza had a wonderful sex life, he was bisexual by definiton. -
bullandbetty — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 02:27 PM)
Well, I don't know about "degrees of bisexual." Will have to think on that to see where I stand.
And yes, if Peter were to say that he and Liza had a great sex life and were to say this while being out of the closet (i.e., no need for keeping up hetero appearances), then yeah, that'd sound pretty darn bisexual. But I don't know that he ever claimed as much.
Now, about 2 people of opposite sex having sex: I do think a gay man could have sex with a woman, specfically (and excuse me for graphically spelling it out) if it were anal sex. I don't think when you're comtemplating penetrating someone's butt (is this getting to be a bit too much?!)it matters a whole heckuva lot whether the butt belongs to a man or a woman. Hell, I don't know. And I really will never know because, owing my particular combination of gender and sexual orientation, these experiences are out of my realm. I can only hypothesize. But it's a good conversation, no?
And what would Liza think were she to know she has inspired such dialogue? She'd probably laugh her ass off! -
jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 03:29 PM)
N'ow, about 2 people of opposite sex having sex: I do think a gay man could have sex with a woman, specfically (and excuse me for graphically spelling it out) if it were anal sex. I don't think when you're comtemplating penetrating someone's butt (is this getting to be a bit too much?!)it matters a whole heckuva lot whether the butt belongs to a man or a woman'
But that would mean that the sexual-identity doesn't matter; it does.
Sex isn't just a physical act,but a cerebral one,since sex is just as much a psychological entity.
To be consi5b4tent with your comment would mean a man(or woman) would be interested in the same-sex for oral-sex as long as it feels gooddoesn't work that way. -
bullandbetty — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 05:55 PM)
Actually I do think it works that way. And I do believe arousal is brought about by different stimuli for men and woman. Not across the board, but as a general rule, I do believe arousal for woman involves a more complex interplay of physical, emotional, and psychological factors. As for men.all they need (again, as a general rule) is a dirty mag in order to respond "sexually" at the sperm clinic.
BTW, we all so off-track that I won't surprised if we get our wrists slapped any minute now for contributing "inappropriate" messages. This a Liza board afterall. And I know we did earnestly start with her; but my have we strayed! Hopefully it's all good or at least "they" b68give us some warning before banning us from this sphere.
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jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 06:06 PM)
'As for men.all they need (again, as a general rule) is a dirty mag in order to respond "sexually" at the sperm clinic.'
Yes, but what type of magazine? A magazine of naked women. AND do the particular dirty-pics turn him on(?) Men are not that animal-like.
I think the notion that women need more 'complex interplay' is very exaggerated; if that were true, prostitutes would not be able to perform as promtly as they do.
Seems to me it would depend on the individual woman.
And men don't just aroused because of physical stimuli..they need an emotional-compotent also,or they would be aroused any by ANY female. -
bullandbetty — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 06:12 PM)
Oh, where to start with this one? How bout this: a prostitute's "performance" has very little to do with arousal. It's a job; it's acting.
As for "Yes, but what type of magazine? A magazine of naked women." Not necessarily. Gays guys are just as welcome to donate at the bank. So if it takes a mag of naked men to do the job, so be it.
Who am I? Dr. Ruth?! -
jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 11:54 PM)
"Oh, where to start with this one? How bout this: a prostitute's "performance" has 5b4very little to do with arousal. It's a job; it's acting.
As for "Yes, but what type of magazine? A magazine of naked women." Not necessarily. Gays guys are just as welcome to donate at the bank. So if it takes a mag of naked men to do the job, so be it".
My point is that notjust ANY magazine will sufficeit depends on whose pictures are inside. In other words, not every straight man is going to be aroused by a magazine of naked women.
Men are very visual,you're right but I think we also downplay women's sense of visual.
Women are more inhibited to admit their carnal-desires because of our double-standard. Don't you think? -
bullandbetty — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 06:19 PM)
So..why do you think people make fun of her?
(BTW, I think she is gorgeous and hot. Have seen her in person 4 times in the last 8 months, once from the 3rd row. Her eyes are striking AND pretty. Lorna is boring, visually.) -
jimellis — 16 years ago(May 07, 2009 11:46 PM)
So..why do you think people make fun of her?
"(BTW, I think she is gorgeous and hot. Have seen her in person 4 times in the last 8 months, once from the 3rd row. Her eyes are striking AND pretty. Lorna is boring, visually.)"
Uh-huh.
And people claim Barbra Streisand is beautiful. I know calling homely actresses beautiful is sort of the 'chic' arty thing to do,but why the need? To be different?
Nobody is "blaming" them for their looks,but to call these woman gorgeous is plain silly, I'm sorry.
Karl Malden has one striking nose,but nice-'striking?
BTW, everybody looks striking ON-STAGE with bright-lights sparkling in their eyes and sculpturing thier cheekbones. -
jcotton41 — 16 years ago(May 09, 2009 07:07 PM)
I know I should stay out of it, but I can't.
Not everybody like perfect, small features. There are many of us who lb68ike dramatic, strong features. Big eyes, big mouth, striking features. Blond is boring.
To say that we're trying to be "chic and arty" is kind of an insult. It's just a preference. I'd take one Liza Minnelli (not literally - I'm gay, but just to look at) over 10 Brittneys, AND day.
So if you prefer the looks of a mousey blonde, okay, but it doesn't make the rest of us posers. -
jimellis — 16 years ago(May 09, 2009 09:30 PM)
'Not everybody like perfect, small features. There are many of us who like dramatic, strong features. Big eyes, big mouth, striking features. Blond is boring. '
Your sexuality doesn't reflect on your postI know, sexual-prefrence is a fixation with people today when it comes to everything.
I am simply stating that she,overall, is nob68t a pretty woman,and I think most of the world's population would concur. It's not really a question of "bland/boring",as such.
I said nothong about blonde hair. Hair color is not relevant.
There is a difference between LARGE features and homely-LARGE features. And of course, there are people will small-features who are not attractive.
But none of Liza'a features are pretty to me: not the nose,mouth,eyes.
Her eyes are large,but shaped like teardrops,like her father. The false eyelashes only make them look worse. -
jcotton41 — 16 years ago(May 09, 2009 11:58 PM)
I'm trying to describe the way I feel about Liza's looks, and my being gay is part of the equation inasmuch as I'm fascinated but I don't want to, you know, sleep with her.
And no, she isn't pretty. I said I don't really care for just "pretty" in my actresses, I like a big dramatic canvas.
The critic Pauline Kael acknowle5b4dged that Liza had awkward features and it was only when she sang that they all fit together and she became beautiful. Not to get arty.
I guess I associate blondes with a fragile beauty, and I prefer study good looks like Maria Callas and Sophia Loren.
Her eyes saucer-shaped. And she was born to wear those mink eyelashes. Best thing she ever did besides getting high right before Fosse started CABARET and getting her hair cut! -
jimellis — 16 years ago(May 10, 2009 04:35 AM)
'Best thing she ever did besides getting high right before Fosse started CABARET and getting her hair cut!'
Interesting,because I think if she grew her hair out,it would be more flattering; we all need a change in 40 years,as well.
However, Minnelli already had success before being associated with Fosse. There was 1969's THE STERILE CUCKOO,earning her an Oscar nomination.
Here's the thing: if people who claim she(and others) are 'beautiful,' saw her walking down the street and she was an unknown,nobody would look twice.
She seems in love with herself,so thats all that matters. -
jcotton41 — 16 years ago(May 10, 2009 09:51 PM)
I agree that she had a streak going, but CABARET put her into the stratosphere.
I'd look twice: "Hey, that looks like Judy Garland's kid!"
Anyway, it sounds like you're bit of a fan of Liza's so it's all good. Charles Laughton sure wasn't pretty but he could knock your socks off, and he couldn't even sing! -
Moon_and_New_York_City — 16 years ago(September 25, 2009 07:43 PM)
I am gay so of course I have the DNA strand that attracts me to Judy, Liza, Barbra, Bette and Kathy Griffin lol!
But even though I LOVE Liza with a Z, I think I know why some people make fun of her. She can - at times - become somewhat full of herself and annoying.
"the best that you can do is fall in love" -
WordsForeverFlowing — 16 years ago(May 10, 2009 04:08 AM)
Homely my ass - Liza is strikingly beautiful. Anyone who doesn't like her obviously has no right on the board; amirittte?
I'll spread my wings and I'll learn how to fly
Though it's not easy to tell you goodbye