Nina Simone controversy = Political correctness has jumped the shark
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Sweet_and_Lowdown77 — 10 years ago(March 04, 2016 04:20 PM)
Your argument is that Zoe doesn't look enough like Nina. That she has different features and skin tone. Yes? They should've found someone else based SOLELY on appearance?
Okay, so Nicole Kidman is a 5'11" Aussie, red haired, freckle-faced beauty with a small button nose. In THE HOURS, she played Virginia Woolf. Ms. Woolf was a 5'6" refined Brit, brunette with no freckles and was incredibly pale. She also had a very large nose.
The filmmakers transformed Nicole into Virginia Woolf, by changing her face, giving her a fake nose and applying white makeup to cover her freckles and pinkish skin (since her skin tone did not match).1354 They died her hair as well.
Nicole bared almost NO similarities to Virginia Woolf. Her accent was different as well as her country of origin.
I ask, what's the difference between this and Zoe in NINA?
Why does it have to be this massive conspiracy? Can't it simply be the filmmakers wanted Zoe? That they thought she was the best ACTRESS for the role?
I'm seriously asking.
Aren't there plenty of big nosed, pale skin Brunettes that could've played Virginia Woolf? I don't remember a boycott or backlash from this group.
I just think it makes ALL Black people look bad when they attack another Black person like they're attacking Zoe. It looks petty and sad. -
Sweet_and_Lowdown77 — 10 years ago(March 04, 2016 05:15 PM)
This is why you lost the argument You don't answer the question, because the answer ruins your argument.
The simple truth is THIS happens to all race, creeds, colors and nationalities. THE PATRIOT, a film about the Ameircan Revolution, was directed by a German and starred Two Aussies. MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA, one of the most acclaimed Japanese novels of all time, starred a bunch of Chinese Actors playing Japanese. In the film GRIDIRON GANG, The Rock, a Black Man, played the lead character based on a real person who was white.
In every case, you can say:- Wasn't there a short, pale Brunette with a long nose that could've played Virginia Woolf?
- Wasn't there an American Director and 2 American stars that could've made a film about the American Revolution?
- Were there no Japanese Actors to play in Memoirs of a Geisha?
- They couldn't find a white guy to play a white guy in GRIDIRON GANG?
This practice is NOT strictly reserved for the Dark Skinned Black Woman. This happens all the time. For many reasons, and I believe 1st and foremost, it has to do with Money. Studios and Financiers like stars. Stars mean they can get their film made. It's tough to make films with unknowns. Stars help. Secondly, I believe it has to do with talent. It's tough to find the right person and when you find a talented actor to play the part, you justify by saying, "they'll be able to pull it off b/c they're a great actor."
I'm not saying racism doesn't factor into the equation, but it's not the main reason and it's not even high on the list.
Good luck with your next argument.
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starryeyedgirl1 — 10 years ago(March 04, 2016 06:07 PM)
I did not lose anything.
And I did answer. You are just too idiotic to see that the darkening of Zoe cheapens the movie since it looks bad. You can tell that is not her real skin tone or hair.
This would not be the case if they used someone who actually looked like Nina. So YOU lose.
Also a poc being cast in a white role is not the same as a white person being cast in a poc role. Never will be considering whites get most roles anyway.
This love will be your downfall -
Sweet_and_Lowdown77 — 10 years ago(March 05, 2016 10:36 AM)
Since you're incapable of understand the entire concept of acting, you should probably find a new hobby.
And NO, you didn't answer the question. I understand Zoe's skin tone if different. That wasn't the question. The question was how is what producers did to Nicole Kidman for THE HOURS different? They LIGHTENED her skin to make her MORE white, they altered her face, using prosthetic nose and they dyed her hair.
Exactly what producers did for Zoe - actually more than what they did - in Nina.
They darkened Ben Kingsley to play Indian for Gandhi. While Ben was part Indian, like Zoe is part Black, Ben looked more like his mom (white), so to play Gandhi, they darkened him.
So what's the difference?
Couldn't the producers found a short, brunette, pale skinned women with long nose to play the part of Virginia Woolf?? They couldn't have found an ACTUAL Indian to play Gandhi?
Where was the outrage?
This is ONLY an outrage because, as always, the Black community WANTS to keep racism alive in America - despite the fact this film wasn't produced in America or by Americans.1ebc
There was NO controversy by POC when Denzel, a dark-skinned black man, was cast a light skinned MALCOLM X. Why?
These are the questions that need to be answered that you can't answer honestly. Because the answers ruin your argument.
The Answer to the 1st question is, there is no difference. Producers find who they believe is the best person for the role and then try to make that person look more like the actual person. Sometimes it's spot on, like Daniel Day Lewis in LINCOLN, sometimes it's bad and distracting, like Anthony Hopkins in NIXON. But this practice is common for people of all colors.
There was no outrage because most logical people understand the concept of acting. It's MORE important to get the best ACTOR/ACTRESS for the role than to get an exact double.
There was no controversy with Denzel because he's dark-skinned, and the racism in the Black Community doesn't go the other way. Imagine for a moment if Malcolm X was dark Skinned and they played a light skinned actor to play him.
That's why this scandal is bogus and the ones behind it are racist. -
starryeyedgirl1 — 10 years ago(March 05, 2016 12:09 PM)
It IS different because I mentioned many times how bad Zoe looks playing the dark-skinned Nina.
A
white person
lightening or darkening their skin is not the same, so don't bring those examples into it.
A black man playing a lighter skinned black man is also not the same because black men get better roles regardless of their looks.
It's dark-skinned black women (without accepted features, small nose, lips, etc) who don't. They are passed over in favour of lighter skinned women.
That's why this scandal is bogus and the ones behind it are racist.
The ones behind it are not racist. They understand how hard it is for dark-skinned women with non Euro features to be recognized in the industry.
Why is that so hard for you to comprehend???
Do you have an example with a black woman - which is what my argument is about?
There is ALSO no way in hell Zoe was the best actor for the part.
This love will be your downfall -
Sweet_and_Lowdown77 — 10 years ago(March 05, 2016 12:46 PM)
So there is a massive conspiracy to keep dark skinned black woman without a small nose, lips, etc. within the Entertainment industry and it spans productions in North America & Europe?
I don't see many tall White women on Television. Couldn't I argue there is a massive conspiracy against Tall white women? The only "tall" woman is Allison Janney. One tall woman out of all the TV shows in television! OUTRAGE! The conspiracy: They keep them off the air because most male actors are short and they don't want to make the men feel intimidated.
I mean, you're picking a minority within a minority within a minority to suggest there's bigotry. You say that there's a conspiracy against Dark Skinned women, unless, like Megan Good has dark skin and was the lead of Dreamworks & Fox's MINORITY REPORT - but she's okay because of her nose.
Do you hear yourself?
You're suggesting the entertainment industry is purposely keeping out women with big noses, big lips and odd features.
If you're suggesting the entertainment industry is vain YES, YOU'RE RIGHT. Beautiful people have the advantage. Megan Good isn't the best actress out there. She shouldn't have had her own show. But she's gorgeous. So she gets an advantage.
Keanu Reeves is a terrible actor, but beautiful. Same with Jessica Alba. These are bad actors, but beautiful.
We've already established that Viola Davis & Kerry Washington are the leads on their own shows. Despite what you believe, if there was a conspiracy to keep certain folks off TV, they would not have their own show. Gabourey Sidibe is now on EMPIRE. I'm pretty sure "Crazy Eyes" on ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK fits your limited cr5b4iteria as well. So does Leslie Jones in the new GHOSTBUSTERS.
There are plenty of examples out there. You need to look for them. I found several without even trying. -
starryeyedgirl1 — 10 years ago(March 05, 2016 01:38 PM)
First off, you keep bringing in white people as examples, which is idiotic since they don't face the same discrimination, even if they are attractive.
Okay. Now you're calling women with big noses and lips ugly ok.
Also, stop using
the only few exceptions
(Viola, Kerry - show created by a black woman, Uzo - show with lots of diversity, Gabby - show created by a black man,b68 and Leslie.) as proof of anything.
There is no conspiracy, just a preferred type of "black". Field n-word vs. house n-word. Beyond that, the black woman who looks closest to a white woman.
I'm done arguing since you obviously know nothing. Talk to actual black women of all shades and see what they have to say instead of going off your ignorant WHITE opinion. If you want to know, ask them. Why would I make this up?
The message is that A WOMAN WHO LOOKS LIKE NINA, IS NOT EVEN GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY NINA. End of discussion. Go find someone else to spout ignorant crap off to.
This love will be your downfall -
Sweet_and_Lowdown77 — 10 years ago(March 07, 2016 07:23 AM)
I never said anyone was ugly. I simply stated that beautiful people, of any color or race, get preferential treatment over others. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but certainly it's fair to say Keanu Reeves is more Beautiful than (looks wise) than Paul Giamatti. Fair? But Paul has more acting talent.
That's my point.
If you believe that there is a concentrated effort to keep dark skinned women off the screen, then YOU believe in a conspiracy. You can't say there is no conspiracy while simultaneously saying there's a coordinated effort to keep certain people down.
Obviously, a certain part of the Black Community is upset b/c Zoe isn't as dark or blessed with nina's physical attributes and characteristics. To a community that has been harassed and targeted unjustly, I certainly understand the immediate reaction of pain.
And maybe you're right. I'll never understand. But I was blessed to have been brought up by parents who taught me we're all equal. I was never taught hatred or bigotry. I have always tried to look at someone's inside and judge them and not the outside.
Maybe this is a naive position.
So, I was attempting to put perspective on this issue. Using a number of examples of other actors that weren't right for the part, but were changed.
You simply want to make this a "Black" issue instead of an "Acting" issue.
And that's where our opinions differ. Again, I'll admit, I don't understand the outrage. When I first got to Hollywood, I worked as a PA on a film that cast someone who didn't look anything like the person in real life they were playing. I asked the director about it. He told me it was MORE important to find the best actor for the role than someone who looked exactly like the person. If the person has talent, they'll make you forget about the cosmetic stuff and see the person's soul.
I also know the realities of the film business. It's hard to make bio pics. Historically, most period films don't do well. Also, Nina isn't as universally known as say Aretha Franklin or Diana Ross. Now that's not diminishing her importance or anything, it's just stating a fact. Popularity doesn't equal better. I'm just saying that the filmmakers probably felt they needed a "Star".
I think, in hindsight, if they were going to cast Zoe, they simply should have had he be herself, like STEVE JOBS did with Michael Fassbender. I think the behind the scenes photos of Zoe with darker makeup really set up the film for failure. -
beaucheri33 — 10 years ago(March 05, 2016 10:34 PM)
Ok first off, you're a white man who probably will never know why this subject is so touchy.. it's something you will never understand..
So please don't insult black people as a whole saying that it makes us look bad when we attack another black person! I'm attacking her because I don't think she's right for the part?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and why do you keep mentioning nicole kidman? The prosthetics they used on her in the hours vs. The prosthetics on zoe are apples and oranges!
OK this isn't a "Hollywood" film, buy trust me.. zoe was cast because she's a Hollywood star this industry treats black women like they are at the bottom of the totem pole, and that's the truth! Yes there are working black actresses in this industry, but very few will ever experience zoe's level of stardom.. there will always be a lighter skinned actress that is given the spotlight while other dark skinned actresses fall by the wayside a lot of actresses who were probably not even considered so that zoe could take the lead.. -
Sweet_and_Lowdown77 — 10 years ago(March 07, 2016 07:35 AM)
We are all enti238tled to our own opinions. Absolutely. And on this topic we'll agree to disagree.
I simply refuse to base my opinion on Zoe's performance based on her looks. And I agree, Zoe was probably cast because she's a star. This happens in most films, especially lower budget films. Stars are stars for reasons. The examples I used show that "stars" who look nothing like the real life person, are cast all the time.
Ben Kingsley, while 1/2 Indian, inherited MOST of his physical attributes from his white mother. He grew up in London, not India. When he was 5b4cast in GANDHI, they shaved his head and darkened his skin.
Malcolm X was 5 inches taller than Denzel. He was also very light skinned and had reddish hair. He inherited these traits from his white grandmother. Now the filmmakers did not attempt to "lighten" Denzel (a wise move). But they kept him his natural "dark skin", which wasn't close to what the real Malcolm looked like.
Both these performances were excellent. Ben won an Oscar and Denzel was nominated. In both situations the filmmakers found the BEST actor for the role despite the fact they didn't share the same physical traits as the real person.
So I'm asking what's the difference here? There was no outrage over Kingsley or Denzel. Nor should there have been. So why in those 2 cases of high profile films, did no one have an issue with changing the lead actor or casting a Black Actor who didn't have the same skin tone or features as the real life Black Man? -
alirioaguero2 — 9 years ago(July 18, 2016 04:46 PM)
Lighter has always been better for Black and Asian actors, especially females. Interestingly, it has often been reversed for White actors, especially males. Being Caucasian is a plus on the screen, but often being too pale is not something that is encouraged. Maybe females can get a 'pass' most of the time, but when a male actor (often blond or redhead) is very light, he is bullied for being 'pasty' and often advised to 'get a tan'. So, colorism, racism and sexism exist in every culture and subculture in the world. Doesn't justify any of that, though.
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tiger86-2 — 10 years ago(March 08, 2016 12:12 PM)
We had Morgan Freeman playing a redheaded Irishman. We had Laurence Fishbourne playing a white journalist. We had a black actress playing Hermione on stage. The Rock played Hercules.
Click here:
http://soundcloud.com/tigermaster/ -
tiger86-2 — 10 years ago(March 09, 2016 04:43 AM)
All of the characters I mentioned are.
That doesn't change the fact that their race was changed for the movies.
Click here:
http://soundcloud.com/tigermaster/ -
neelay123 — 10 years ago(March 09, 2016 06:10 AM)
While I do think we need more redheads in hollywood movies perhaps race and complexion didn't play an integral part the the characters Morgan and Laurence played. And JK Rowling herself has implied that Hermione race is ambiguous.
As I mentioned before Nina being a dark skinned african american woman with a broader nose and fuller lips played a big part of her life. -
alirioaguero2 — 9 years ago(July 18, 2016 04:58 PM)
Actually that happened multiple times and I am fine with that.
Candice Patton, who is black, is playing Iris West, comic-book character who is white in the source material. She is the female lead in The Flash, and she is awesome in it.
Black Latina Zabryna Guevara played Sarah Essen on Gotham. The character is a blonde white woman in the comics.
Ruth Negga, a black woman, is playing female lead Tulip in tv's Preacher, who is, again, white in the original source material.
The list goes on and on -
PeggyFromMannix — 10 years ago(March 05, 2016 06:31 AM)