Perfect Cleopatra, Jolie STOLE HER ROLE!!
-
MikkelKessler — 15 years ago(July 08, 2010 07:54 AM)
http:// www. youtube .com/ watch?v=2r5p8yoe_sk
that should clear it up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r5p8yoe_sk -
szisoman — 14 years ago(January 27, 2012 02:00 PM)
Wow! Egypt is in north africa yes, but Cleopatra wasn't ethnically egyptian. She was a queen of the Ptolemy dynasty, who were greeks who invaded Egypt with Alexander then general Ptolemy took over after his death.
Egyptians back then weren't that dark like Nubians. Angelina jolie looks nothing like ptolemies, nor did Elizabeth taylor.
Cleopatra would've been tanned, like greeks or southern italians are.
Egyptians did not convert to islam in the 7th century! The prevalence of islam there took several centuries through inter marriage and migration.
" Let's go get a drink & smoke a cigarette" -
P-K-One — 14 years ago(January 27, 2012 06:15 PM)
I wrote "most of the light skinned people that now live in Egypt are descendands of the arabs who conquered northern Africa after their conversion to islam in the 7th century". I admit that sentence was a bit unclear. I meant that the Arabs converted to Islam in the 7th century and then went on a conquering spree through north Africa and in that process conquered Egypt and interbred with the people living there. So the appearance of Egyptians now is no absolute indicator of what they looked like 2000 years ago. I have no idea when exactly they conquered Egypt but since the Arabs reached Spain in 711 and Islam began to spread in 622 when Mohamed left Mecca and went to Medina and the expansion was triggered by the conversion to Islam they must have conquered Egypt some time between 622 and 711.
As to the rest of your post, let me just quote myself (From a post from August 7, 2010):- Her father was of Greek descent but he came to Egypt with Alexander the great 331 BC. So her father's ancestors hat spend more then 250 years in Egypt. A lot of mixing can take place in 250 years. For all we know her father might very well have had some black ancestors. His racial background is not clear at all.
- Nobody knows who Cleopatra's mother was. The wife of her father was banished around the time of Cleopatra's birth and according to at least one source, even before her birth. So we do not know who her mother was. She might have been black or white, we do not know.
Now, I do not say that Cleaopatra was black beyond any doubt. I have no idea if she was. I just say that she might very well have been black or mixed and that the race should not be an excluding factor for the actress.
I wrote that in this thread, over a year ago. And while we are at it
Egyptians back then weren't that dark like Nubians
That's far from certain. Just google "Ethnicity ancient egypt" or read this, straight from wikipedia:
"Modern scholars such as W.E.B DuBois,[77] Chancellor Williams,[78] Cheikh Anta Diop,[79][80][81] John G. Jackson,[82] Ivan van Sertima,[83] Martin Bernal,[84] and Marcus Garvey reviewed the available evidence and concluded that the Ancient Egyptian society was indigenous to Africa (or AfroAsiatic in the case of Bernal) and consequently a mostly Black civilization.[85] Recent archaeological evidence (e.g. Incense burners with Egyptian iconography in Lower A-group Nubian burial sites) supports the theory that the Ancient Egyptian civilization was indigenous to Africa and contemporaneous with the A-group Nubian culture.[86][87][87][79][88][89] The oft criticized Journal of African Civilizations[90] has continually advocated that Egypt should be viewed as a Black civilization.[91][92]"
So the indigenous population might very well have been black. And there is little reason to assume that there was no interbreeding considering that the Ptolemaic dynasty adapted some Egyptian culture which shows a will to integrate and mix and maybe even that the invading Greeks married directly into the royal family (Cleopatra was famously married of to one of her brothers which is something that the Greeks did not do but the ancient Egyptian royals did) especially since Alexander had the policy to marry his officers and himself to indigenous women to further stability (Google "Susa mass marriage" or the life of Alexander the great in general. Among other things he himself married two Persian women to guarantee the stability of his newly conquered territories).
So to sum it up:
Indigenous Egyptians might have been black. Cleopatra's father traced his family history back 250 years to a Greek but there is are reasons to assume that there has been at least some mixing with the indigenous black population and we don't know who Cleopatra's mother was. Her mother could have been black for all w16d0e know.
I am not saying that Cleopatra has to be played by a black actress, I am just saying there is no reason not to let a black actress play her.
I think humanity should be wiped out and then we can give evolution a second chance.
-
lamaya43 — 12 years ago(April 16, 2013 12:55 AM)
Cleopatra was the last of the Ptolemaic linedescendents of General Ptolemy who fought for Alexander the Great. When Alexander died, they divided his Empire amongst the generals. He was the character played by Anthony Hopkins in Oliver Stone's "Alexander". Not only was she Greek and not Egyptian, but her native language was Greek, which was the Lingua Franca of the ruling class in the eastern portions of the Roman Empire(Latin never quite took hold amongst the commoners either). Though she did speak Egyptian, it was a second language that most of the ruling aristocracy didn't bother to pickup(so rare that scholars at the time took special note of her knowledge of it).
So, she was in fact Greek. As a black African I would love to claim her, but historical accuracy comes before pride. So I'll just have to claim her as a fellow human being. -
P-K-One — 12 years ago(April 16, 2013 11:19 AM)
Yes, she was a descendant of a greek generaland as we all know, all descendants of the Irish in the US are white and speak Irish. 300 years in a country with dozens of unknown people in your family tree have NO chance whatsoever to impact that.
Again, she could have had dozens of black ancestors in the centuries between Alexander and her. We do not know who her mother was so even if every single person in her father's ancestry was as white as a bed sheet she could have looked like Halle Berry.
But sure, we know of ONE white ancestorshe must have been white.
I am not saying she was black. I am just saying that she could have been. There is nothing anywhere that let's us safely pinpoint her ethnicity. So why would anybody insist that it has to be white?