Spencer winning for a Mammy does not help black women
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omoxus — 14 years ago(March 08, 2012 07:32 AM)
^
Some say the same about Chris Tucker. Just becuase his eyes pop out, he's playing 5b4a stereotype.
that's just the way he looks. This race thing has gotten so bad that black folk are sensitive to any and every image. Concerns over image is very important, but the energy needs to be focused on places where it applies. Constructive not reactive.
Im the Alpha and the Omoxus. The Omoxus and the Omega -
Tyson_Kidd_for_WWE_Champion — 14 years ago(March 08, 2012 07:37 AM)
I know right. Some people actually think just because Disney put the black princess on its candy packets that are flavored watermelon, it is racist. I can't believe how sensitive some people can be. Although, this is Disney we are talking about so it is debatable. But yes I just realized that about Chris Tucker now that you brought him up. In Rush Hour 2, I swear he did it all throughout that movie!
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omoxus — 14 years ago(March 15, 2012 07:02 AM)
This whole racial imagery thing reminds me of Martin Lawrence's charecter in Boomerang. He was so paranoid, he would look for race in everything. Life's too short. The Help is a disney chick flick. Am homage to the southern maids. Not intended as a hard nosed portrayal of the South.
Im the Alpha and the Omoxus. The Omoxus and the Omega -
Salt-and-Limes — 14 years ago(March 08, 2012 10:59 PM)
Salt-and-Limes then please tell us exactly what would actually help black actresses?
What would actually help black actresses is getting roles that have them as complex human beings instead of b!tches & hoes who are about the money. Or as self sacrificing matriarchs & domineering women who are completely de-sexualized. All I'm saying is that we should see more of black women being like any other woman that is portrayed in the media.
If people only saw American black women as maids then would they think Michelle Obama, Condoleeza Rice, and my own mother were maids? Not there is anything wrong with being a maid I am just asking.
If they didn't know who Michelle Obama (Condoleeza Rice was a bad example) or your own mother were then they probably would. Not necessarily maids, but characterize them with the stereotypes mentioned above.
What I would really like to know is what role would help black actresses? What role would finally win an actress the Best Actress in a Leading Role for a positive role? And I highly doubt just one role would do anything, not that I am concerned about it because I know a lot of good black women.
Anything that doesn't show a mammy, sapphire, or a hoe. A maid isn't a mammy btw. You can be a mammy-like character and be a secretary, judge, National Security Adviser, etc.
Also, the video you provided and I have seen other people complain about is Octavia Spencer using her eyes as means for playing a stereotype. I would like to point out that it is not a stereotype. It is her signature comedic deadpan expression she gives in a lot of her work. Viola Davis does it too in almost all her movies except hers is for dramatic purposes.
Yep and Mantan Mooreland also made that his signature. Anyway, Spencer and some other posters mentioned Chris Tucker, use that as a comedic expression. Which they probably adopted from previous black comedians before them. As for Viola Davis, she more than likely uses it to give her character more of a comedic expression.
The point of the video, is that the world likes to make fun of black women who are overweight, sassy, rude and with coonish expressions. So awarding Spencer for all of those atributes is kind like a slap in the face to black women who have to put up with these stereotypes. I'll use me as an example: I'm not fat, rude or self sacrificing. However, people still think that I'm a whore or a bitch because their brains have been conditioned to think of black women that way via the media.
I remember reading on imdb where this guy considered all other races of women feminine and beautifulexcept for black women. Gee, I wonder why? -
Tyson_Kidd_for_WWE_Champion — 14 years ago(March 08, 2012 11:22 PM)
To respond to your last question, I have to say maybe becuase of reality television and the Maury Show. I don't watch reality television but from what I heard it makes black women look like bitches and hoes. Anyway, that thing about the stereotype about eyes. I was saying Octavia Spence5b4r, Viola Davis, and Chris Tucker use them for different reasons. Octavia Spencer is for her comic deadpan expression because it is her trademark. While it may have been Mantan Mooreland's trademark, at least she doesn't speak slow as hell but it is still a trademark nonetheless. Same with Chris Tucker because he is very funny, but during Rush Hour 2 that is what I remember with his facial expressions. Now for Viola Davis, it is more for dramatic purposes. In Antwone Fisher, Doubt, and The Help, in almost all the scenes that focus on her, you can see her eyes are among her biggest attributes. You can see how much passion she can give just by looking at them.
I do not think you are a bitch or a whore. I like the point you are trying to make. While Octavia Spencer's Oscar win may not have been the for the best role, she is continuing to receive roles in mainstream Hollywood, as is Viola Davis. Hopefully, they will not be stereotypes. Since Octavia and Viola already have roles open for them, I think they are already doing better than Halle Berry, who really did nothing after Catwoman bombed. I also hope more black actresses will break into mainstream soon because I swear Hollywood has left behind some of the great ones. I would like to know why aren't roles given to Angela Bassett and Cicely Tyson like to Angelina Jolie and Meryl Streep? Both Angela and Cicely are powerful actresses and if maybe if Meryl's roles didn't call for th111ce character to be white, I think Cicely Tyson could do the same great work as her.
Also, I heard earlier today that Viola Davis will be portraying politician Barbara Jordan in a biopic. I think that is something to look forward too and will probably bring her the Academy Award for Best Actress because I think she is overdue for an Oscar. -
Marisa_Gabriella — 14 years ago(March 14, 2012 02:44 PM)
I don't understand, do you expect people to forget history? To forget how black people were treated? This film was in no way a negative portrayal of black people.
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luz4tgV2fD1r41djgo1_500.gif -
Salt-and-Limes — 14 years ago(March 14, 2012 06:36 PM)
I don't understand, do you expect people to forget history? To forget how black people were treated?
The Help only barely touched the surface of how black people were treated during this time period. In fact it was inaccurate because it had black maids doing and saying whatever they wanted to their white employers. -
Tyson_Kidd_for_WWE_Champion — 14 years ago(March 14, 2012 07:03 PM)
Well Salt-and-Limes, you said Octavia Spencer and Viola Davis playing so-called mammies won't help anyone. Well they have roles lined up for themselves with Viola Davis playing Barbara Jordan. I think that is a good role and both are doing good for themselves. Also Halle Berry has roles lined up for this year and next year. So, in my opinion they are helping black women because I believe Viola Davis could project a better image if she plays Barbara Jordan.
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alirioaguero2 — 13 years ago(August 05, 2012 12:53 AM)
Hi, saw the thread, read it all, and I have to say the two of my own.
First of all, Octavia is a tremendously talented actress. Yet, she has been playing additional characters like Nurse #2 and Woman on Street for most of her career. I think at that point she would step into almost any role that has more than 3 lines. And when you think about it, Minny is a very powerful role. Not only that she is a very important character (hence, bigger payment and higher credit for Octavia), but also she is a deep, complex person. She is a mother who raises her c5b4hildren on her own (with abusive husband), and works an ungrateful job, where she is treated like trash by some brainwashed bimbo. And again, she manages to take it all with a bit of humor, a humor that is very lighthearted and very bitter at the same time. I don't think that the character is a throwaway at all, and Octavia did a wonderful job.
Remind you that it is a period piece and that Black women were mostly domestic or low-ranked secretaries. Definitely not how it should have been, but The Help is not a fairytale. As for that not being the most hurtful things they suffered, of course not. Some were even killed for being bit forward, or not even that much. Some were sexually abused by their employers, although I believe that majority were not. It seams most plausible that the majority of maids (not extreme cases, but everyday Jane of that time) suffered emotional abuse and degradation by their employers. And also, film was mostly about women, their relationships with men were barely touched. And I believe that it is very rare that a woman sexually abuses another woman (although I might be mistaken).
About the stereotypes, of course they do exist. In Hollywood especially. But I don't think it stereotypes Black people only. I think it stereotypes just about everyone. But the fact stands that not everyone has equal right to complain, since not all stereotypes are perceived as hurtful or diminishing. Black 'Mammy' stb68ereotype is getting quite annoying though. A heavy, middle-aged light-hearted forward woman of motherly affection. True, those roles can be easy to love, since they are mostly warm and tender. However, it is getting tiresome seeing how physical appearance marks the actor in that measure. Of course someone of Octavia's proportions won't be able to play a supermodel in a realistic-set movie, but there are other stuff she could easily do. One of them is being a lead in a romantic comedy, for instance.
Personally, I admit that I cannot know how it feels like to be Black nor a woman, since I'm neither. But as I said, we all have some stereotypes. For instance, I'm a red-haired guy and I know I get tired of watching red-haired men as a comic relief or a sidekick. It's like every time a guy has a red hair, especially if he isn't tall and buff, he's playing something funny. Either a comic-relief good guy or a sleezy, nerdy side villain. But in any case, he's never presented as serious or desirable as a couple with someone. Have you ever seen a red-head man as a hero of the film? Heroine's love interest? Or at least someone who's brave and daring. Rarely, and even then, he's bit humorous or the whole film is a slapstick comedy.
I don't claim it's remotely the same, though. I heard, learned and read many stuff about how Black people were treated in the past, and also in the present. I know that having a Black president doesn't solve all racist problems, but at least it means that at one point in 2008 almost 3/4 American that voted, men and women, all races, decided that specific Black man is worth voting for more than anyone else. That should count for a step in the progress. However, I assume it can be tough being Black and going to the movies too see that 9/10 people of your race are presented as domestic or sidekicks. It would annoy anyone.
And Hollywood does it because they are still partially bound by the same stereotypical picture of a main movie couple: Man who is tall, buff, strong, White, ''tall, dark and handsome''-type and his woman who is 'self-sufficient' woman (she still needs him, but she is slightly more dependent than other women in the film), and she's graceful, thin, hot (usually blonde). Of course that some actors fit that stereotype and are still very good and talented. However, it saddens me that there are many untalented actors that fit that stereotype and are still popular, while many are very talented, but not so popular only for not fitting that stereotype.
Octavia is very talented. I'm very happy for her to win the Oscar and she definitely deserves it. I'd say that basically it is a step forward, not backwards, since now there is one more Black woman written in movie history annals. But she really needs different types of roles as well. I think she'd be amazing Amanda Waller. For anyone not being into comics, sheb68's a powerful anti-hero and possibly the most influential woman in DC Comics world. -
activista — 12 years ago(August 10, 2013 12:09 AM)
@alirioguero2
You pretty much nailed it wiht this postthanks! About redheadshow come white folks always seem to have an issue with redheadsboth men and women? What is up with that? I've never understood what the reason behind that is. -
alirioaguero2 — 12 years ago(August 12, 2013 04:20 AM)
I'm glad you liked my post. I would love to see people portraying characters beyond their stereotypical field. I don't know what's up with redhead stereotype either. I'd love to see, let's say, Octavia Spencer and Rupert Grint as leads in a film. Action-thriller, maybe? And I'm sure some of the buff actors that are actaully talented would love to play a scientist or a professor without smashing someone's face on screen.
Thanks @activista -
activista — 12 years ago(August 10, 2013 12:26 AM)
Spencer's role as a maid didn't set anybody backshe simply took a role that finally gave her the chance to breathe some life into it and rolled with it. Honestly, this is the 21st centuryit's way past time to stop dumping all the responsibility to always portray a perfect human being onscreen on black actors. We ought to be allowed to play a range of complex roles showing us as flawed and complicated just like white people always get to do,dammit. And the reality is, white folks have ALWAYS stereotyped black people since they brought us here in chainsone good non-stereotypical performance isn't going to change that.
I saw the movie, and to be honest, I didn't find even find the character of Minny to be that stereotypicalyou actually got to see the real pissed-off person beneath the happy front she put on for her white employers. You wouldn't have gotten that kind of depth from a stereotypical character at all The real problem with the film,for me, was not the fact that the leading roles were maids, but that the film didn't show them at least fighting for their own civil rightsinstead, ti acts like they were too scared to do anything for themselves until some little white girl came along and told their stories for them. Which, for anyone familiar with basic civil rights history, is some flat-out bull****. Basically it was just a feel-good,glossed over Hollywood version of the civil rights era written by two white peoplewhich is why it was a hit to begin with. The reality is, as long as white folks run Hollywood, you're only going to get movies like that coming out,period. The film was actually pretty good, considering I was straight-up prepared to hate it. -
dano40-1 — 11 years ago(June 05, 2014 05:12 PM)
Come home to me Mammy, there isn't any new life to breathe into a mammy or a porter, which why most black people don't want to see it any more, from 1915 thru 1970 that is all you would see on film and later TV, American's black or white suck at the detail needed to do good period pieces (i.elike British film and TV today), over the years most American period pieces have been
terrible
, the lack of detail, storytelling and knowledge oh boy.
Examples of British period pieces and there are many others.
Danger UXB
Upstairs/Downstairs
Foyle's War
Downton Abbey
Garrow's Law
