Gay???
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metalman091 — 12 years ago(April 10, 2013 12:06 AM)
An intelligent insight into how the rumors of Valentino's sexuality began, and how creeps like David Bret got their inspiration.
http://rudolphvalentino.org/how-rudolph-valentino-became-gay/ -
DivingIntheBlue — 12 years ago(May 16, 2013 12:22 PM)
I can understand why people ask this question. I certainly don't understand why certain people go ballistic if someone poses this (albeit tired) question however. To act like there aren't certain pictures or certain scenes in films where Valentino appeared to be what is now considered stereotypically gay is silly.
The acting style back then was vastly different from today. All those theatrics weren't questioned then but to see some of that stuff now makes most people curious. That's not a bad thing nor is it "sick". Proclaiming rumor as fact is wrong but I don't see that going on here.
As for David Bret and authors like him, they make every one who is dead into a raging homosexual or bisexual. If they weren't gay or bisexual, they were promiscuous or working as a prostitute. Those kinds of authors are the equivalent to kids who used to write nasty things on the bathroom walls about other people - half of what they write is wrong and the other half is pure fantasy. -
metalman091 — 12 years ago(December 12, 2013 02:29 AM)
I can understand why people ask this question. I certainly don't understand why certain people go ballistic if someone poses this (albeit tired) question however. To act like there aren't certain pictures or certain scenes in films where Valentino appeared to be what is now considered stereotypically gay is silly.
The acting style back then was vastly different from today. All those theatrics weren't questioned then but to see some of that stuff now makes most people curious. That's not a bad thing nor is it "sick". Proclaiming rumor as fact is wrong but I don't see that going on here.
As for David Bret and authors like him, they make every one who is dead into a raging homosexual or bisexual. If they weren't gay or bisexual, they were promiscuous or working as a prostitute. Those kinds of authors are the equivalent to kids who used to write nasty things on the bathroom walls about other people - half of what they write is wrong and the other half is pure fantasy.
Exactly!
But I have never seen any kind of homophobic reaction to the rumors of Valentino [or any other star]. More common is the blatant accusations of homophobia that seem to occur when someone disagrees with the assertion that an actor might be gay or bisexual. I guess these people are too PC and will interpret any disagreement as veiled homophobia.
Was Rudolph Valentino straight, gay or bisexual? I cannot claim anything one way or the other. All I know is the evidence is very thin and sketchy. And whatever the truth is/was, authors like Kenneth Anger, Darwin Porter and David Bret have not helped with their exploitative and sensationalist works which for some reason enchant those who should know better. Even if Valentino was gay, these authors are still the definition of inaccuracy.
One of the ugliest stories was from Kenneth Anger when he claimed that Ramon Novarro was choked to death with a dildo that once belonged to Valentino. Novarro choked to death on his own blood after being beaten. There was no dildo at the scene. This is the kind of crap that makes people angry. Anger sensationalized someone's demise!! What a piece of garbage he and the rest are.
There is no evidence to suggest that Valentino and Novarro had ever met long enough to be friends let alone lovers.
Valentino's sexuality
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=AeFRWzXjoVcC&pg=PA220&lpg= PA220&dq=darwin+porter,+david+bret&source=bl&ots=lyy8rMHUk G&sig=5uEqX5hRbqnBVEvAdRTsRWEJzMc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=dCapUs fNGo7xoASNyoDQAw&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=darwin%20porter%2 C%20david%20bret&f=false -
!!!deleted!!! (5085627) — 11 years ago(June 16, 2014 11:15 PM)
"Was Rudolph Valentino straight, gay or bisexual? I cannot claim anything one way or the other. All I know is the evidence is very thin and sketchy."
The "evidence is very thin and sketchy" for which one, metalman? Strab68ight, gay or bisexual? Surely Valentino was one of the three. ("Yes, he was, but what does his sister Shirley have to do with it?") Regardless of your wording, you are right about one thing: you cannot claim anything one way or the other because you're speculating about something you know nothing about just like everybody else. And just what is this "evidence" you claim is "thin and sketchy"? Did you know Valentino or someone who did?
Valentino was bisexual, and to those who are so convinced otherwise, get over it. Do you really think that gay and bisexual actors didn't exist in the 1920s or that it was only minor, less famous actors who were gay or bi? Hardly. There have been gay and bisexual male sex symbols since the birth of film, and Valentino was indeed one of them, so what's the big deal, especially 90 years later? Why does this still bother so many to the point of refusing to believe that there's even a possibility? Only homophobes and/or the uninformed still firmly believe that Valentino was straight. The film industry has always been one in which the majority of its gay and bisexual actors have married for the sake of their image and career, and in Valentino's time studio heads would even resort to ordering and threatening its top moneymaking gay and bisexual stars to marry or else they could kiss their careers goodbye. Some buckled and submitted (see next sentence) and some didn't (William Haines and David Manners). Cary Grant, another supposed "ladies' man" with five marriages to his name the first being at age 30 just as his career started to take off and his live-in relationship with Randolph Scott was becoming publicly known is one example of a popular, mainstream heartthrob who married rather than risk his career. Even today this straight facade is still utilized by certain gay and bi actors such as that transparent joke, John Travolta, but there are others. Travolta's career was in the toilet until Look Who's Talking revived it and suddenly he decided to marry for the first time at age 37. (Travolta's nickname isn't "Bone" without good reason. Give him a bone and he's in gay heaven.) I could name several still-closeted actors and actresses off the top of my head who are definitely gay or bisexual, and if I were to reveal their names right here and now even a few of the names I can already see some of the responses I'd get, and most if not all would be angry, indignant accusations of spreading lies and rumors. ("No, he/she can't be! I refuse to believe it! You're lying! Prove it! The evidence is thin and sketchy! Etc. etc. etc.") The same doubts would be expressed by those at this thread who've also doubted Valentino's bisexuality.
And incidentally, both of Valentino's wives were well-known lesbians, and then as now, it's never been uncommon nor unheard of for ga111cy or bi men to marry gay or bi women, especially in an occupation where image is everything. Can we all say the word "beard," boys and girls? Is anyone at this thread old enough to remember the term "lavender marriage" and what it means?
I met and conversed with Ramon Navarro on two occasions in 1966, and he told me of his brief affair with Valentino and offered proof and validation of its existence and no, not the supposedly infamous dildo but indisputable, concrete proof which I promised Mr. Navarro I would never publicly reveal, and I never have after all these years. But yes, they were lovers again, briefly and who could blame them? Would you have refused either one? Valentino also had other male lovers both before and during his fame, but they weren't as well-known at that time as Navarro. One such encounter was with 17 year old Samuel Steward (look him up) just a month before Valentino's death, which is detailed in the highly acclaimed and thoroughly researched bio, "Secret Historian: The Life and Times of Samuel Steward." The encounter left such an an impression on Mr. Steward that he kept a swatch of Valentino's pubic hair in a monstrance by his bedside for the rest of his life. (His quirk was collecting swatches of pubic hair from his lovers. Interesting "hobby," huh?) -
!!!deleted!!! (5085627) — 11 years ago(June 18, 2014 11:36 AM)
What did you expect to find at this thread, jcarpenter, Valentino giggling while waving his peloso cazzo non circonciso at you? That would have been nice for us all, but you'll just have to settle for adult conversation instead.
Perhaps you'd feel more comfortable at a thread where an attention span and writing skills aren't required or maybe you could actually try contributing something of worth instead of writing the word "yawn" at thread after thread. Consistently using a one-word response to everything just makes you look limited, lazy, and lacking. Don't be so afraid of multi-syllable words and most importantly, stimulate yourself instead of counting on others to do so. -
jcarpenter-1 — 11 years ago(June 20, 2014 07:48 AM)
OK, that was weak. I'm not going to get into a flame war with you because clearly you are a person who is verbose, hyperbolic, and likes to hear himself talk. My one word response to your lurid spew was a reflection on it's content, which read more as a personal fantasy than actual truth. Rudy's biographers both concluded he was, most likely, straight. Your source, Ramon Navarro, a brief matinee idol at best, was an alcoholic with cloudy j111cudgement. All of that
may
be debatable but what isn't is your torrid pulp, which should be kept to the free chat-rooms you creep. -
!!!deleted!!! (5085627) — 11 years ago(June 20, 2014 02:11 PM)
You see, that wasn't so difficult was it, jcarpenter?! You can actually write more than one word when you set your mind to it, so keep it up and soon you'll be able to contribute something at these boards and threads that's truly worth reading! I'm encouraged that you finally realized how boring and boorish one word posts are, and I'm also proud of the step you've taken to expand your vocabulary. You'll discover that once you leave the word "yawn" behind, a whole new world of thought and conversation will await you. There's hope for you yet, and I'm glad I could be of assistance in improving your communication skills. They still need work, but you're getting there.
You're welcome. -
metalman091 — 11 years ago(February 02, 2015 12:29 AM)
The "evidence is very thin and sketchy" for which one, metalman? Straight, gay or bisexual? Surely Valentino was one of the three. ("Yes, he was, but what does his sister Shirley have to do with it?") Regardless of your wording, you are right about one thing: you cannot claim anything one way or the other because you're speculating about something you know nothing about just like everybody else. And just what is this "evidence" you claim is "thin and sketchy"? Did you know Valentino or someone who did?
You missed another option called asexual. But you know that I meant. We have no way of REALLY knowing what Valentino's sexual preference was. There is no evidence for him being homosexual or bisexual, but that doesn't mean he wasn't one or the other despite the claims that you spoke to Ramon "Navarro."
You may have spoken to a gentleman named "Navarro" but you didn't speak to Ramon NOvarro or William Powell or anyone else. You made the same spelling mistake more than once. Even if you did, I bet they did not discuss their love life with you. No I don't know anyone who knew Valentino and neither did you.
We [most of us here] have already gone over reasons about the lack of evidence. How about you start at the beginning instead of writing about things that didn't happen and misspelling words.
Nothing you have said here has ever been proven. I suggest you look at the history of Cary Grant and Randolph Scott again C A R E F U L L Y along with Natacha Rambova. -
Falconeer — 11 years ago(June 21, 2014 08:38 AM)
Like i mentioned in another post, that question cannot be answered by anyone here. I believe the rumors began because he had a European style that American men thought was ridiculous and suspect. From the start of his career, the gay rumors were just that; rumors, that nobody could back up with ANY factual evidence. So the question is pointless; it can't be answered. Ib68 don't even think it matters.. i do know that the rumors drove Valentino crazy; he hated nothing more than people questioning his manhood; understandable of a Southern Italian from that time. He hated the rumors so much that he actually got into a boxing ring with a nasty critic who had slandered him; and Rudy beat the crap out of this lowlife! I think that after that incident, he garnered more respect from the male population.
"IMdB; where 14 year olds can act like jaded 40 year old critics' -
metalman091 — 11 years ago(December 20, 2014 12:26 AM)
For what it's worth, Paul Ivano dismissed as "a lot of baloney" that latter day gossip that Valentino was homosexual, angrily insisting, "He was a nice, normal human being." Ivano's use of the word "normal" might indicate his feelings about homosexuals.
Valentino appears to have aquired a more passive stance when he arrived in America. He appears to have been a playboy in his native Italy and also in Paris and Monte Carlo. Maybe he grew up a li2000ttle tiny bit in the United States. -
smdpi-mail-com — 11 years ago(January 17, 2015 01:23 AM)
Did anyone ever listen to the Claire Windsor interview on Youtube? He gave her the old 'Would you like to come upstairs to my room, and see my photos of Italy' line, and she went. He then proceeded to chase her around the room, until she asked to be taken home. I don't think gay guys would do that.