Oh man, you gotta listen to Obscured by Clouds more, I think it's one of their top 5 albums.
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davemx — 18 years ago(April 24, 2007 08:16 AM)
All i'm saying (again) is that Dave is a BRILLIANT guitar player ("Comfortably Numb" must be the greatest guitar solo EVER), but is Roger's ideas, music and lyrics that made Floyd the legend it is, and i find it ridiculous that someone says he can't sing lol
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donstuie — 18 years ago(April 24, 2007 09:06 PM)
Generalisations? i was being very specific.
Specific you say?
"you should know Pink Floyd and Waters' history better before posting"
(to another poster) "Well, you obviously are not a Pink Floyd fan"
I'd call those generalisations my friend, and the kind that are made using one's opinion as if it was total fact, the worst kind.
Roger tries and respect the songs as they were intended to be, so he'll just re create his original voice parts and leave Gilmour's to singers with a similar range, instead of destroying them like Dave does live, i can't stand him on "Brain Damage/Eclipse", or "Run Like Hell" among so many others
No, it's because he can't do them, because he simply doesn't have the vocal range. How many times does he have to publicly state this for people to get it into their heads??? On DSOTM Waters wanted to sing even less than he did, and it was actually Gilmour that encouraged him to do more. And why do you think they got Harper to do vocals on Have a Cigar? Waters' voice is perfect for Waters' own work, Animals, The Wall, Final Cut, Pros and Cons etc, his voice is perfect for the music that Floyd was making later on, but it doesn't change the fact (a fact because he's SAID SO) that vocally he's very limited, and the opinion of many that Gilmour was by far the superior vocalist.
I also quite like how you chose to overlook the fact that I said Gilmour is a brilliant guitar player
What does it matter? You appear to be saying that Gilmour's guitar-work had nothing to do with the success of Floyd, and that Roger really didn't need any of the other guys for the band to be as good as it was. Or are you going to backtrack now and say that Gilmour was indeed an integral part of the band's success?
There you go, and that's the irony, Gilmour's crappy albums sell by the millions, and Waters' highly artistic works make less money, but Roger's fanbase isn't as worried as you are about commercial success, his tour has been on the road for a year.
Funny, I always thought Waters had by far the superior solo career than Gilmour, unless you're refering to Momentary Lapse and Division Bell, in which case I think it's got a bit more to do with the fact that they were branded under Pink Floyd and thus given more marketing support. I don't agree with it, but this is just simply the sad reality of the music industry.
But there you go generalising again, because I don't give a beep about commercial success, I just don't feel the need to get all Holier than thou over that fact. But therein lies the difference between Waters on his own, and Waters with input from Gilmour. Waters + Gilmour pushed the boundaries creatively while still making music that regular radio listeners could enjoy (You DO know that Gilmour collaborated quite a lot musically on Meddle, Dark Side and WYWH, right?), and most agree that while Waters was the architect of the whole thing, it was through collaborating with Gilmour's opposing musical philosophies that they both produced their best work. Gilmour's own work is just boring and little more than elevator music, and Waters' music is far too narrative and political for many's tastes. I would much rather buy a Waters solo album than a Gilmour, because I think it's better. But we're dealing with subjectivity here, and opinions, and personal tastes, not facts. Look up the difference.
Wrong again, Floyd is Waters writing the songs, period. Floyd is Waters' music, Waters' lyrics, and Waters' concepts.
OPINION!!! Just like my own. Any numbskull cover band can play DSOTM or The Wall, but are you saying because it was Waters' words they would've inevitably had the same success as the Floyd? Do you really think Waters could've gone around with any band for hire and still had the same success as he had with Gilmour supporting him? I also went to see Waters when he was here recently, and it was fantastic, but the difference in quality between this and Floyd (yes, even when it was just Gilmour, Mason and Wright) was noticeable even to an observer in the crowd. There were times where he obviously mimed, where his voice broke on even simple notes, where he required T5b4WO guitarists to do Gilmour-solos that Gilmour could do in his sleep and even screwing up simple things like the intro to Shine on The show reaffirmed my belief that Waters needs Gilmour there to produce his best work, and vice versa. You cannot sit there with a straight face and tell me that band would've had the same success simply because Waters was behind it all. If you can, boy, you are one committed fan. -
davemx — 18 years ago(April 25, 2007 08:24 AM)
I agree that Roger could pick a better guitar player for his tours, but i guess he gives them the freedom to play as they feel like, maybe not knowing that people (me, included), expect the solos to sound like Dave's, but that's his choice, at least Kilminster has improved from Doyle Bramhall's disaster from 2001.
I enjoyed Waters' current DSOTM tour better (both because of the set list, and sound) than "Pulse", and like you say, that's my opinion, i love Roger's style on bass, it sounds way better than Guy Pratt (can i say, obviously?). i guess we can't have it all, too bad Gilmour closed every door for a Pink Floyd reunion.
I've explained my views, we disagree, and that's my opinion. -
Cbak — 18 years ago(April 24, 2007 05:03 AM)
Please allow me to express an opinion. Just because I don't like the last bits of DSOTM doesn't make me obviously "not a Pink Floyd fan". If you like Brain Damage/Eclipse and all the fiddly bits on The Wall like Goodbye Cruel World/ Vera/Is There Anybody Out There/Stop, good luck to you.
Where I agree about Pigs On The Wing is the way the gentle strumming on the first part gives way to the much more menacing strumming of Dogs (for me, the best track on Animals)
I notice too that you haven't commented on my main view, ie that Piper At The Gates of Dawn is the group's most overrated album. Not only is the moody cover in contrast to nursery rhymes like The Gnome and Scarecrow, this album features one of Roger Waters' worst songs, Take Up Thy Stethoscope and Walk. -
davemx — 18 years ago(April 24, 2007 11:28 AM)
The whole "Animals" album is awesome, i love the powerful stuff in that one, like "Sheep", and as you say "Dogs", but the softer "Pigs On The Wing" is also beautiful.
My fave PF albums are those from the 70's, starting with "Meddle", and finishing with "The Wall" (and everything in between).
I think "The Piper" is important because of Syd, and his bewitching influence on Roger's writing after that, and through all of the 70's Floyd music, so i wouldn't call it overrated at all, it has great moments too, so i think that label fits better to "A Momntary Lapse Of Reason", "The Delicate Sound Of Thunder", "The Division Bell", or "Pulse" equally. -
bergerisc — 18 years ago(April 25, 2007 12:58 PM)
None of the 73-79 stuff is overrated in my opinion. The wall has some filler because it is telling a complete story which is different from their others. I think the two most overrated are Piper and A momentary lapse. I know everyone says Syd is a fantastic, and maybe he was for that time but now listening to it, it's pretty much psychdelic crap to me. There are good songs like Astronomy domine and Interstellar overdrive, but the rest is just too weird. Momentary lapse just shows everyone that Gilmour is good musically but lyrically he need Waters, and Waters need Gilmour as well.
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davemx — 18 years ago(April 25, 2007 02:27 PM)
The wall has some filler because it is telling a complete story which is different from their others.
Of course!
Momentary lapse just shows everyone that Gilmour is good musically but lyrically he need Waters
I agree. -
mistergarret — 18 years ago(September 21, 2007 06:55 PM)
I love them all, but I'd say Wish You Were Here is overrated. With Animals, it's three very long songs that are PERFECT, though I could do without the synth solo in Dogs, Pigs is one of the greatest songs ever written. With Shine on, just kinda trolls on, Welcome to the Machine is just depressing, have a cigar is cool, WYWH is a great song, but not enough to have it at the level everyone puts it at.
The Wall might be a tad overrated, just cause there is a lot that could have been cut back on, but there's also so much amazing stuff.
Dark Side is not overrated, maybe just overplayed. Its an amazing album, but shouldn't be the sole focus of The Floyd's career. Not everyone's quite so hung on it though.
And anything done after Roger left is not Pink Floyd, it's David Gilmour, Richard Wright, and Nick Mason making an album.
enjoy life
the dude abides
Stand.
www.michaelsavage.com -
mistergarret — 18 years ago(September 27, 2007 10:09 PM)
Hey man, it ain't a Donny issue cause I'm in my element.
The Wall is great for what it is, but I don't play it straight through like I do Animals or DSOTM. It isn't like every note on the album is absolutely positively needed.
5b4
Regardless, it is among the greatest albums ever made, just that The Floyd has better.
enjoy life
the dude abides
Stand.
www.michaelsavage.com -
playtendo64 — 18 years ago(October 04, 2007 07:11 PM)
I agree that the wall is overrated, but its still great. i mean the lyrics are amazing but i felt that theres 1 song i cant listen to is there anybody out there" i mean its good but it just doesnt do it for me
Ill see you on the Dark Side Of The Moon!!!!!!!!!! -
mistergarret — 18 years ago(October 04, 2007 09:35 PM)
The only 'Floyd' I can't listen to is post-Waters, Gilmour should have given it up and chosen a new name, Roger was Pink Floyd.
enjoy life
www.ronpaul2008.com -
SirTopher813 — 18 years ago(November 16, 2007 11:51 PM)
Post-Waters Floyd may be "creatively dead", but David Gilmour's masterful guitar work is what keeps the band alive. True, their music became alittle more pop-rockish on some tracks, but who honestly believes that the Floyd sound left completely with Roger? MUSICALLY, David Gilmour is Pink Floyd. LYRICALLY, Roger Waters is Pink Floyd. Pink Floyd has become less of progressive rock band since Waters left and they have not released a real concept album with a true central theme, but their music is still enjoyable none the less. Honestly, I prefer Roger Waters and his creative mind as a part of Pink Floyd, but I do feel they can succeed without him if they can find a creative lyricist with a similar vision.
Ultimately, I want what all Floyd fans want, a Floyd-Waters reunion tour as the one and only TRUE Pink Floyd. But at this point, I'll take whatever I can get, whether it be Gilmour's Pink Floyd, solo Gilmour, or solo Waters.
"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." -
sndpul — 18 years ago(December 10, 2007 07:54 AM)
Overrated? The Wall, although it has splashes of brilliance, I find it to be a bit "choppy".
I sure did love it back in high school, although 20 years later, it seems "not as brilliant" as I once thought it was. -
tpureti — 16 years ago(January 03, 2010 12:17 PM)
Ok, as far as "overrated" goes, I think The Wall is overrated. Not the entire album, but just Another Brick in the Wall Pt.2 and Comfortably Numb. However brilliant these songs are, it seems to be the only songs that people know from Pink Floyd. Dark Side of the Moon is also overrated, not because it's bad or anything, but people seem to only focus on this album in Pink Floyd's career and it really annoys me.
And you know what else annoys me? The crap people have been saying about both Waters and Gilmour on this thread. Seriously, shut up about them! It's true though, that they both need each other, and it's not Pink Floyd(unless Syd is there) without them.
But what about Rick Wright? So far, only one person on this thread has even bothered mentioning him. Why do people say the "Final Cut" is the greatest album by Pink Floyd when there is no Rick Wright?! Pink Floyd isn't Pink Floyd without Rick Wright. That's why I don't like to consider TFC or MLR or Division Bell as Pink Floyd. Frankly, those three albums are overrated.
Pink Floyd is either Barrett/Waters/Wright/Mason or Gilmour/Waters/Wright/Mason. Period.