https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/entertainment-celebrity/marilyn-manson-s-ex-accuser-backtracks-on-rape-allegatio
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138 — 3 years ago(February 24, 2023 02:29 PM)
She does seem to be on the wrong side of all these things lol. I definitely see a bias in favor of men. I don't think she's trolling or crazy, but there seems to be a blindspot. A charitable way to look at it is maybe she's familiar with a case of wrongful accusations. These things can shape your prejudices, much like you and arab men.
ᴳᵒ ᶠᵘᶜᵏ ʸᵒᵘʳˢᵉˡᶠ -
Sophienoire — 3 years ago(February 24, 2023 02:43 PM)
yeah, makes sense.
i don't think Lil is nuts either, i'm just baffled how she can even take sides here and already claim AT THIS POINT that Manson is completely innocent and all the women here are liars and manipulators and do this because they're also inherently vile and devious and not to be trusted, ever while THE MAN is always UNTOUCHABLE. she's worse than the worst misogynistic sex troll on here (see Steve Lake's comment) which is why i'm suspecting her to be trolling, too… lmaooo
it's always the same with her, as i've elaborated above, so i'm familiar with her mindset and i really don't want to get into this too much with her. i'm just gonna keep calm now. lol
as for me and my Arab men hate, well, i'm not crazy either, sooo…
the sound of your racing heart -
138 — 3 years ago(February 24, 2023 02:55 PM)
I understand your frustration with her. She has frustrating takes on things, but it doesn't seem like trolling. I've seen this same blindspot from family members and a lot of people who don't want to see their favorite people as abusers. I've been reluctant to accept it because Jesus Christ, all my heroes keep turning out to be predatory: Woody Allen, Louis CK, Stza of Leftöver Crack, Johnny Depp, etc. If David Lynch turns out creepy, I'm gonna ****in ****in kill myself lol.
I'm just saying our experiences shape our prejudices sometimes. I've seen your justifications, and I find them lacking, but get where you're coming from. I have my own prejudices I wrestle with.
ᴳᵒ ᶠᵘᶜᵏ ʸᵒᵘʳˢᵉˡᶠ -
Sophienoire — 3 years ago(February 24, 2023 05:33 PM)
and surprise, all these predators are all rather powerful men!
i think there was a controversy around Lynch some years ago when he thought about starting and building up a meditative community here in Berlin which he called "church of meditation of something something" but which sounded more like a sect. he really was going to buy an estate here in Berlin or nearby and start that ****. i'm glad he didnt follow through with that in the end. imagine Lynch leading a sect.
i don't think he's an actual predator tho. his leading actresses and yearslong muses never stopped loving him, and among them are hardline feminists Isabella Rossellini, Laura Dern and Naomi Watts. he's a good one, i'm sure.
the sound of your racing heart -
Lilith — 3 years ago(February 24, 2023 03:12 PM)
I do not hate women. I hate people who manipulate others into a mindset.
If I hated women, why would I support people like Rose McGowen who helped to bring down the likes of Harvey Weinstein, a man who was the epitome of a predatory, manipulative abuser? Why would I support Virginia Guiffre as a victim being legitimately trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein? Did you forget that I was pro Meghan and Harry in the beginning until they began to spin their lies and machinations, (lies which have been fact checked and proven false). I don't blindly believe. You do.
Men are not untouchable. You just like to hate all men and your cohorts like to make sweeping statements without looking at the facts.
I make comments about three women and you think I hate "all" women? See? You're as illogical as Christina's sweeping statements trying to know how all Germans feel.
I've also read legal documents in this case and am informed at how things have transpired. I'm making my decision based on facts.
Wood and Gore can forge federal documents and you'll still think their **** doesn't stink. Shame on you.
"Your emotional state is not my responsibility." – Warren Smith -
Sophienoire — 3 years ago(February 24, 2023 05:23 PM)
Wood and Gore can forge federal documents
and you'll still think their **** doesn't stink. Shame on you.
lolwut i dont live in your country, so i couldnt care less what you crazy Americans are doing over there
nor do i have the slightest idea what you are even talking about here in the first place
i dun smell nuthin.
as for the rest, fair enough. i really don't keep tabs on everyone here and that's why i don't remember that you've been a glowing supporter of #Metoo and on the right side in the Epstein case. (good for you!)
you know, after threads like this one here, you just have to remind everyone that you're actually not
that
bad as i have assumed once again, even if we still are on completely opposite sides, on pretty much everything. lol no point in arguing tho. it's all good.
the sound of your racing heart -
138 — 3 years ago(February 24, 2023 03:49 AM)
Consider the possibility she's caving to pressure from the other side and fans. Also, there's no proof Evan is a liar. I get not wanting to automatically assume guilt, but your assumption that the accuser is lying is equally problematic.
ᴳᵒ ᶠᵘᶜᵏ ʸᵒᵘʳˢᵉˡᶠ -
Lilith — 3 years ago(February 24, 2023 04:02 AM)
Have you read even one of the court documents (that are available to the public) with regards to these cases? This is a carefully orchestrated machination.
I'm not assuming. In the beginning of this, I was very much on the fence because I didn't know the facts. I've been following this closely for two years.
I think "believe all women" is fundamentally wrong: it sets a dangerous precedent. Many people are placing their support in what they "feel" or because Manson is such a freakish personality.
If ERW and Gore's cases were so strong, they would not need to hack into Warner's (Manson's) computer, actively go on a recruiting mission to "find" victims, create a checklist for every female in Manson's life to fill out (rather than an organic evolution of incidents). Wood and Gore created a list for all the women to use to make their cases cohesive. They didn't just ask these women an open question, such as, "were you ever abused by MM?" or "Can you list what events transpired?" Those are legitimate queries.
If their cases were so strong, they wouldn't have to fabricate a letter from the FBI and impersonate an actual federal agent under false pretenses to manipulate an agenda. They also coordinated the rollout of what day to post about their "abuse."
They also worked very hard to convince many of these women that they were just repressing memories. That, and perhaps kink-shaming. Esme Bianco is a BDSM model who was hired by Manson, flown in from England, put up, given shelter, expenses covered and paid for the work she provided, then she had sex with him, and she was trying to say MM is guilty of "human trafficking?" C'mon man. She and Manson settled for a piddly sum right before Smithline admitted to what Wood and Gore did to create this backlash. They did not come together organically.
What they're doing is destroying the way real victims are going to be believed, or not. Same as Heard. Men can be victims of assault, too.
"Your emotional state is not my responsibility." – Warren Smith -
138 — 3 years ago(February 24, 2023 04:23 AM)
I didn't say believe all women. You also don't have to convince me that women can abuse men. I know. Just as there's no proof that he was abusive, there is no proof that she's lying. So many factors like the ones you mentioned can definitely make things seem a certain way, but there are other possible explanations. I can relate to wanting to pressure others to go after an abuser. We had difficulty getting some victims who confided to us about my abuser to get involved, and there is often reluctance. I thankfully never needed to be used, but I know I didn't wnat to go on stand and be hounded by the defense lawyer, retriggering the trauma of dealing with his enablers. I saw how it was affecting some of his other victims. It's easier sometimes just to say you lied and to give up on fighting it.
I also used to be a fan of Manson's, so any bias on my end would be towards defending him, not seeing him as the boogeyman 90's parents saw him as. Legally speaking, I don't know if he's guilty. Though, his relationship with Evan was predatory. She was barely legal, and the age gap was significant. It's not hard to believe there was possibly worse, but I won't make any assumptions without evidence.
ᴳᵒ ᶠᵘᶜᵏ ʸᵒᵘʳˢᵉˡᶠ -
138 — 3 years ago(February 24, 2023 01:52 PM)
There's an issue with the expectation for victims to be a perfect victim, but those imperfections often make them prime targets. I think of one of my abuser's victims being less than ideal. Had an attitude. Did some wrong things herself, and that was used against her. Abusers and their enablers can just whittle you down and make you question yourself. That is possible in this case.
I don't get why not believing someone did something has to mean the accuser is lying. There's always the position of "I don't know".
ᴳᵒ ᶠᵘᶜᵏ ʸᵒᵘʳˢᵉˡᶠ -
Damien Thorn 666 — 3 years ago(March 03, 2023 11:35 AM)
A lot of abusers will browbeat their victims into keeping their lips sealed about the cases of sexual abuse. Most of them aren’t going to rush to make a case since a testimony usually isn’t simple. What happens then after the cold-blooded sexual deviant finds out that someone blew the whistle on them, and they’re off scot-free because the victim was unable to prove the incident happened while the target remains bruised?
It’s a terrifyingly ****ed up situation. Some abusers can even turn the tables around against the accuser if they have the resources and power. It sucks.
“There are no atheists in foxholes, eh?”-Keith Jennings from the Omen. -
138 — 3 years ago(February 24, 2023 02:16 PM)
Sexual abuse in particular is hard to prove. It's not always violent and forceful, but coercive. It's what kept us from convicting my abuser. The only reason he was sent to prison was he was dumb enough to text a victim to keep them quiet.
ᴳᵒ ᶠᵘᶜᵏ ʸᵒᵘʳˢᵉˡᶠ
