Tyler got killed off?
-
ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 04, 2016 09:21 PM)
Don't worry Tyler is not dead.
She didn't bring back Lucy. She killed her off-screen.
Bonnie's actually been written very well this season. If you can look past the fact that you didn't get your shipper preference - you could enjoy this season of finally putting her front and center & protected & cherished by almost everyone of the main characters. -
awesomebamon — 9 years ago(November 04, 2016 09:37 PM)
Bringing back Lucy for Plot to kill her off is still bad. Considering that Lucy is a WOC who many wanted back, but she brings her on to kill her off.
Please how is Bonnie well written in pain and suffering and magicless once again? Don't reduce everything to shipping, unless you want your problems with JP's writing and how they write for the show or the Damon rape debate reduced to shipping.
My points about Bonnie and how JP treats POC on the show poorly are just as valid as any of yours that you have with her writing.
And why is JP and the writing getting defended in the issues of race and diversity on the show, and acting like she is writing well for Bonnie. When you have an issue with Damon and the rape? -
Freya_Mikaelson — 9 years ago(November 05, 2016 03:37 AM)
Honestly this argument is stupid. I get people getting mad about Tyler, but Lucy? BITCH WAS IN ONE EPISODE GET OVER IT.
She was a pointless, useless character who seemingly found her way back into the plot. Her being dead or alive would've made no difference. Honestly who even cares?
http://imgur.com/RFUnjhP
We cannot prevent what we cannot predict ~ -
ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 05, 2016 06:26 AM)
She's the female lead now so her life's not going to be happy or without troubles or there'll be no drama. That's what being front and center is all about - she's the one that things happen to and everyone, good or bad, make the focus of their attention.
In fact her storyline now, play for play is Elena's in season 3 after Stefan went away with Klaus. Elena was just as physically, magically powerless and unhappy and like Elena then, Bonnie's strength is coming from being surrounded by people who love her and want to protect her even as some crazy supernatural makes her his (Klaus) and now her (Sybil) focus.
Her being without magic is actually empowering for Bonnie as a the black woman's who had do often been reduced to a plot device that uses her magic to save everyone. It's forced the story to give her the same 'Damsel' treatment that the other girls have enjoyed. Now it's Bonnie who gets to have people push her behind them to safety - Caroline, Enzo, Stefan. Who gets saved by Alaric at the end. Who's important not because she's #Useful as Damon always said, but because she's Bonnie.
Her strengths are also reminded. Her gorgeousness is no longer treated like it doesn't exist. Her inner strength is praised. Her devotion to her friends is commented on and even exploited, instead of taken for granted. That, unlike the other girls who are surrounded by lovers, past and present, she's surrounded by friends and she's that special that she can inspire devotion in Damon - separate from her relationship to Elena because he doesn't remember her - without a romantic or sexual history. In fact, his memories of her are given as much weight as his memories of Elena.
And it's a shame you're going to ignore all that because you didn't get Bamon. A relationship where Bonnie timeshares her true love with another woman and is in no way superior or even more compelling than Bonenzo. -
awesomebamon — 9 years ago(November 05, 2016 06:36 AM)
We disagree because me and other Bonnie fans do not see the writing for Bonnie in any way as a positive or a compliment. Because you do doesn't mean that others will or have too.
Always reducing it to people shipping Bamon and not getting Bamon, when some so busy to blame Bamon fans don't get that there are actually Bonnie fans who don't ship Bamon and who flat out hate Bamon and are Anti-Bamon/Damon, who also dislike Bonenzo and who have a problem with the writing for Bonnie.
But, single it out and act like Bamon fans are the only Bonnie fans who have a problem with the writing if you'd like to dismiss valid reasons for why people have a problem with JP's writing.
You going to go and accuse BonKai shippers or Kennett shippers of the same things if some of them complain about the writing and have a problem with it as well?
Nothing you can say that will make me accept the writing for Bonnie as something that should be embraced and praised. -
ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 05, 2016 11:40 AM)
But, single it out and act like Bamon fans are the only Bonnie fans who have a problem with the writing if you'd like to dismiss valid reasons for why people have a problem with JP's writing.
You going to go and accuse BonKai shippers or Kennett shippers of the same things if some of them complain about the writing and have a problem with it as well?
Not only will I do that, but I already did that last season in these same boards mere months ago when I read users like
origine
complaining that Bonnie had been reduced to Damon's 'sidekick'. So I'm not sure what point you're making here about me acting like Bamon fans are the only Bonnie fans who have a problem with the writing.
The thing is that, a lot of these so-called Bonnie fans are shipper fans first. So origine was not happy that in season 7, Bonnie's focus and storyline was mostly about being Damon's friend, because she would rather Bonnie's story be about being with Kai. Now you are not happy that in season 8, Bonnie's focus and storyline is about being Enzo's true love, because you would rather her story is about being with Damon. But the truth is that if season 8 had Bonnie doing exactly. the. same. thing. but with Damon in Enzo's place for you, you would be praising this season to the high heaven.
By all means, ship what you wish - although I will always look askance at anybody who ships Damon with anybody on this show - but it's a pity that you're so focused on not having your ship, that you can't enjoy that your supposedly favourite female character is finally getting the Princess treatment that the other two girls have enjoyed so far. -
awesomebamon — 9 years ago(November 05, 2016 06:04 PM)
Bonnie fans are just like fans of most characters on TVD and are no different from Damon/Stefan/Caroline/Elena/KLaus etc fans who are heavily focused on shipping their fave with their favorite ship. Because the writers made it so that shipping and ships were their biggest draw. JP makes sure to acknowledge shipping trends and no doubt she does it to get in the good graces of those shippers and to get likes and retweets/attention.
But, Bonnie fans still have valid reasons to have problems with JP's writing. Damon/Stefan/KLaus/Kai they are all problematic, so unless someone can say that they don't ship any of the male characters with anyone else on TVD, then they really can't question who chooses to ship who with who on the show, unless it's one of those fans who whitewash their faves wrongful actions and do something like blame the female of the ship for the male's wrong doings.
And people aren't required to like and buy into everything that is written. People can object to the writing and unless you can say that for every TV show you have agreed with all of it's writing and never have a problem with it or objected or voice disagreement over the writing. And unless you can say that you loved every single storyline for all of your fave characters, then I don't see how you can lecture others on what they should accept with their fave characters just because it's written in a certain way.
By that logic then you can't object to how Damon is written. Meaning because the writers didn't address Damon's rape, that you have to accept that Damon is not a rapist, since they didn't have the rape properly acknowledged. -
ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 06, 2016 11:59 AM)
The equivalent of my issues with Damon as a rapist to your "issues" with Bonnie's treatment in season 8 is something like this: In 8x1 - while Enzo and Damon are discussing/arguing about degrees of self-control & fighting against Sybil - Enzo brings up the fact that Damon turned a lot of people into his mindless sex slaves & pets so maybe he has some experience being one. Damon says yes he does & it's always easier when you just give in. The more you fight it, the worse it is. In episode 2 - Sybil mentions how what Damon did to Andi Starr alone earned him a one-way ticket to hell. When they're talking about Sarah's mother in the car and how that's the worst thing Damon ever did, Caroline mentions how Damon raped her and tried twice to kill her as a human.
Then in 8x3 than Damon choking her in the bridal room, Caroline gets the upper hand and then taunts him about how being compelled and turned into Sybil's slave is a taste of his own medicine compelling her and turning her into his slave in season 1. She asks him if Sybil has got around to raping yet and if/when she does, he needs to tell her how that feels like. How there's always a little part of you underneath the compelling that is still alive in that moment and how it feels to go through the "I have no moouth & cannot scream" terror of being trapped in your own head and your will stripped away from you as you're forced to be someone's mindless puppet and plaything.
And then after all that - I will now complain that Damon's rape is still not being addressed to my satisfaction on the show because Caroline is getting married to Stefan because I am a staunch Forwood shipper.
I don't begrudge or deny you your right to complain about the parts of the show you take issue with and find problematic. But there's a difference between being upset that you're not getting your shipper endgame and being upset about social justice issues. So far you haven't been able to explain/ defend why you feel that Bonnie is still being treated "unfairly" besides "Bamon isn't endgame & so she is." -
bluesysax — 9 years ago(November 07, 2016 03:14 PM)
Considering Caroline is no stranger to using compulsion to get people to do her bidding, forgive me for literally belly laughing at this post. I mean SERIOUSLY!
This character was used and abused in S1 and should be the ONE character furiously against using compulsion for any reason whatsoever, yet she is practically frivolous with it and shows very little if any compassion for those that she compels.
Caroline is a vampire now, and is more than happy to use and abuse the powers that come with that. I'm fine with that, the character is more than happy to remain a vampire because she recognises that she enjoys being strong, fast and powerful and embraces those aspects of vampirism.
Caroline in some ways is very similar to Damon, right down the fact that she has issues with always feeling second best, or the back up and doing morally questionable things to save the people she loves..like experiment on Cancer patients to save her Mom or kill witches to save her best friend, or kill Luke to gain leverage to save Stefan etc etc and she has been a vampire for 5 minutes.
Never argue with stupid people,they will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. -
awesomebamon — 9 years ago(November 07, 2016 04:18 PM)
The race issues with the show are a part of the whole social justice thing. It's you who act like you know me and other people just because we ship Bamon or other Bonnie ships and therefore choose to act like you know are minds and hearts and then judge us. Dismissing how and what we feel on the race issues when it comes to Bonnie's treatment on the show. Or overall how POC/black characters can still be mistreated.
We can come up with reasons besides ships and you all the ones who want to dismiss our valid concerns are the ones who dismiss it with being all about a ship. For all of the other reasons that are brought up that doesn't have to do with shiiping, the ones who want to dismiss are the ones who choose to solely focus on shipping and seem to not see or ignore the tons of other issues discussed. The ones who want to belittle and derail race discussions bring up Bamon more than Bamon fans who bring up Bamon. It's your default fall back to in order to try to dismiss race issues. Like no different from those who accuse blacklivesmatter activist of playing the "race card" or "race baiting" whatever they can accuse people of in order to discredit race discussions and to silence POC.
Ya'll sure are not around to see the other metas/articles outside of shipping for the concern of POC/black characters on TV.
You choose to automatically invalidate people's race concerns on who they ship, without knowing them personally or what they have gone through in their life experiences. Judging everyone because you and others have a bias against Bamon fans and therefore want to prove us wrong.
Many Bonnie fans bring up other issues such as Beau or how other POC on treated on TVD, as well as outside of TVD, when other shows mistreat POC characters or kill them off without good reason.
To me you and others who use the "Bamon excuse" to derail our issues, are no different than those who want to derail blacklivesmatter.
Bottomline is that if you aren't a POC, you can't tell POC how to feel on race issues and if you aren't black then you can't tell black people what is and isn't racist or what we can or can't feel or race and race issues.
Not when you are coming from privilege and can't put yourself in the shoes of black people to know what's it like to have to struggle for proper representation in entertainment. -
ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 09, 2016 09:15 PM)
I have agreed with you and several other posters about various aspects of racial inbalances, misogynoir and outright injustices in this show. I have even agreed with points that you Bonnie 'fans' have been at odds with. Classic example: I read Bonnie's relationship with Damon in s6 as debasing to her as a Black woman.
I don't agree with you in this specific instance that Bonnie's treatment in the context of this Season 8, so far, is racially offensive. And I would hazard a guess and say that fans of Bonenzo are loving this storyline / arc that Bonnie's in. -
awesomebamon — 9 years ago(November 10, 2016 05:28 AM)
Of course they are loving it so far, since they are getting their ship on screen right now. But, if the rumors are true of JP killing off Enzo and Bonnie loses him. You think that they would still be happy with the writing? Would they be happy with it, if Bonenzo broke up? Let's face it when some are getting their ships, they don't care about the rest of the writing or how their ship happens, as long as it is happening.
Now, if it's true that Enzo is the one dying, then I'm sure that BE fans wouldn't be as for JP and the writing like they are right now and they would use Enzo dying, as a reason for why JP is doing Bonnie wrong and be upset that the writers are taking Bonnie's "Happiness" away and are putting her through pain and would complain about it. And would mention the pain that Bonnie has gone through in the past seasons and her mistreatment, but are blinded by getting their ship, so they think that Enzo solves all of the things that she has went through in the past at the hands of the writing.
Also when you talk about Bamon fans and not accepting BE and that it makes Bonnie happy, there are some BE fans who ship Bonnie with only Enzo, who wouldn't be happy if the tables turned and Bamon were picked in some way over BE later in the season, especially if they are Enzo fans who dislike Damon, then they wouldn't be any happier with Bamon coming out on top, anymore than Bamon or other Bonnie fans are happy with BE right now. If Bonnie decided that Damon was better for her later in the season, BE fans wouldn't be happy with it.
Mentioning Bamon fans, but being realistic, we can't act like all BOnenzo fans would accept any ending or any type of writing for Bonnie, when it doesn't involve their ship being together in the end.
Overall valid race concerns with the show just shouldn't be dismissed over who Bonnie fans ship. How do you know that some Bonenzo fans then wouldn't point out race issues, if Enzo is killed off and they don't get the happy ending for BE that they want? -
ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 11, 2016 05:56 PM)
Overall valid race concerns with the show just shouldn't be dismissed over who Bonnie fans ship.
Yes, but the problem is that I've seen too many instances of Bonnie shippers, specifically Bamon shippers, who dismiss and even defend valid race concerns on this show when it's going their way. I've seen you literally go from defending Julie's rather convoluted excuses for some of Bonnie's storylines, to abusing the same storylines you defended, when she revealed that Bamon won't be canon.
Too much of your social justice concerns are tied to shipping, and you can't blame anyone for not taking them seriously. -
awesomebamon — 9 years ago(November 11, 2016 06:08 PM)
You are wrong about me that's all I can say. I know my thoughts and my heart and how I really feel. There was a time where I tried to give JP a chance to fix her writing for Bonnie, but I have always been critical of how she has mistreated Bonnie in the writing. Obviously you aren't around to see every post that I have made, around tumblr and twitter. Nor have you seen what other Bamon fans have posted.
Still the fact is that when non shipping reasons are listed, people like you only focused on the shipping and will take it back to the shipping no matter what.
You still choose to dismiss people and Bonnie fans who are black/POC and all of our thoughts to shipping. And that's just as offensive, because no matter what you will find people dismissing ANY valid race issues in the real world on something. No matter what someone is going to find a reason to dismiss race concerns and the concerns of POC. -
ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 12, 2016 09:02 AM)
You are right. I don't know what's in your heart or mind and I'm not on tumblr or twitter so I don't see what you post there. I can only judge you & other Bamon and Bonnie fans based on what I have seen on these boards, unfortunately. Which is that, I have seen you do precisely what you're accusing me of - focusing on the shipping & taking it back to shipping & dismissing or even ridiculing valid complaints about what rival shippers have said about Bonnie's treatment on this show.
However, I don't
dismiss
valid complaints about Bonnie and race on this show. Like I said, I've even agreed with complaints that you have countered. I've agreed that writing Bonnie in s7 as devoted to a man who joked about leaving her to die was problematic. I've agreed that watching Bonnie thank Damon for not hesitating to save her life, even though the audience knew that he believed Elena at the time, was offensive. I've agreed that watching Bonnie dismiss Damon choking her to death after she suffered so much to bring him back from the Phoenix Stone - was disturbing and triggering. I've agreed that constantly seeing a black woman play such a subservient, devoted role to a white man who's so unconcerned is indeed racist.
None of which you agreed with because shipping.
Again - I don't dismiss valid complaints. I dismiss shipper-based faux social justice "complaints" because they aren't genuine, and really have nothing to do with race. (Isn't it the height of irony, that you claim to be pointing out the racism in the writing of this show and yet
you
are the one who's constantly call the last MoC in the cast a "useless character" while you're praising the problematic white male fave?)
S8 Bonnie, as far as I can see, is correcting a lot of the mistakes that the showrunners have made with her character in the past and the only real "complaint" you have, is that she's not written as completely devoted to the white male character. -
awesomebamon — 9 years ago(November 12, 2016 09:55 AM)
What mistakes are they correcting with Bonnie in Season 8? Her storyline is all about trying to save another white character and being devoted to that white character. Still magicless and suffering in pain. Still the one putting herself on the line and risking everything for someone else. Going through constant pain for the sake of saving someone else.
ETA: even with Caroline they had her talking about how she wanted to die or die just because she didn't have Enzo there with her. So don't see how making her have suicidal thoughts over a man is suppose to be romantic or good for her character. Or how her talking about wanting to die this season is healthy or better for her character. Since it takes someone being unhappy in order to want to die and she shouldn't feel like Enzo is now her only will to live or function in life.
JP even said that they are using Bonnie to be the one to fight for Enzo and be his advocate, because no one else is there to fight for Enzo. So Bonnie has to be used as the character to prop him up and give him importance. The writers make it about Enzo making her happy, while the arc is actually about how Bonnie can serve and save Enzo's character. Like how she was used for the Gilbert's before. Staying loyal to saving them no matter how much she hurt and suffered for it.
Every since her relationship with Enzo, she has been in pain. Has been drugged and poisoned for three years, became sick. Talked about how she wanted to give up on her life and die. Season 8 is mostly about how she has to be the one putting herself on the line and through pain and suffering to save Enzo, because he is her "happiness." Therefore it was mentioned that she is sticking by Enzo's side and have him talk to and treat her badly to try and bring his humanity back and his no humanity used as an excuse to have him maybe verbally abuse or belittle her in the upcoming episodes. But, she is going to take the disrespect all because all of her happiness in life is now in him?
A few cute moments that the writers show with Boenzo here and there is suppose to make up for all of the pain, suffering and nearly dying that Bonnie has gone through during their relationship? How has being with Enzo made her pain and suffering stop or magically go away, like it;s okay that she is going through it, as long as she is doing it for him and for his sake?
And the writers can excuse it by saying that she is doing it because he makes her happy, but it's still in the servant role of her doing the same for Elena/Jeremy, putting herself through physical or emotional suffering to save them because she thinks that it made her happy to sacrifice herself for them.
Do you think that Enzo solves the pain that Bonnie is currently being put through? Like it doesn;t matter as long as she has Enzo. Her being on the mission to save Enzo at costs this season, no different from her being on missions to save others in the past, so how are the writers fixing their mistakes.
How is using Enzo as an example for why Bonnie is being treated better, any different from your claims that Bamon fans overlooked complaints for the sake of Bamon.
Bonnie fans are suppose to overlook all of the pain that Bonnie is going through this season, because Bonenzo/Enzo is suppose to make her pain okay and worth it? She was still in plot about dying/suffering with Enzo, the writers didn't completely end that because of Bonenzo, just sugarcoating it to make it seem like it's alright as long as Enzo is there or if it's for her love of Enzo.
Some pointed out MM to be a MOC and yet he as Enzo is whitewashed on the show and whitepassing and not seen as a MOC by JP or acknowledged as such. (If that's what you mean).
Writers haven't solved anything, because it's still the same things that Bonnie fans have had a problem with.- Her being used as the plot device to save the day and the servant loyal to saving someone, this time it just happens to be Enzo over the others.
- Her being powerless or magicless. (even if you don't see a problem with it, lots of Bonnie fans and others are tired of them having Bonnie lose her magic over and over again every season)
- Her overall suffering physically or emotionally through something. Right now she is suffering emotionally because of Enzo/Sybil and is not happy. They may have Enzo hurt her through his nu humanity phrase.
-
ursulazsenya — 9 years ago(November 12, 2016 02:01 PM)
Bonnie's magic was not an asset - to her. It was an asset to everyone else but it was a liability to her. By taking it away from her, they've made her the Damsel in Distress. And before you talk about how demeaning that is for a woman - Bonnie is Not A White Girl. White Girls are always damsels in distress, princesses who get to be rescued while Black Women have to be strong and stoic and rescue everyone else (and not get credit for it).
season 8 Bonnie has her magicless and powerless - and that's where her power is. And sorry, I'm rolling my eyes hard at you complaining that Bonnie is "suffering in pain" because she's heartbroken over her lost boyfriend when this is the only season that hasn't shown her with a nosebleed, or passing out with pain from magic, or strangled or stabbed or manhandled in anyway. In fact, the worst thing that has happened to Bonnie this season, was last episode when Damon tried to kill her - and both times she got rescued by someone else.
If Bonnie's suffering and in pain, then Elena was suffering and in pain in season 1 - when after Damon nearly murdered Bonnie and Stefan broke up with Elena, it was
Bonnie
that ended up comforting Elena that night. And Caroline was suffering and in pain for Tyler walking away from her to get his life back. And Elena was suffering and in pain in season 5 when Bonnie (who was under constant agony as an Anchor and was about to die) had to turn around and comfort her.
Basically, if someone who's watched this show for 8 seasons, is describing "Suffering and Pain" as a girl crying over her lost boyfriend, then either you've really forgotten all the physical and mental anguish that Bonnie has gone through -
and still had to be stoic while her white friends cried over their men- or you're reaching.
The "white"* character she's trying to save is her boyfriend who is trying just as hard to hold on to her and save her back. And Bonnie is doing the least amount of work in the whole Save Denzo effort. If anything, for the first time since this show started, we're seeing Bonnie being written as selfish and self-interested in her own goals. Rather than wait to rescue Sarah, she kidnaps Enzo and tries to get him away to safety. She chooses Damon's death over Enzo's because he is the love of her life.
Season 8 is mostly about how she has to be the one putting herself on the line and through pain and suffering to save Enzo
At
no point
in this season has Bonnie put herself on the line, or risked anything for Enzo. If anything,
she's putting other lives on the line - Sarah, and Damon
, for Enzo. As I said already, this season is letting Bonnie be selfish about her happiness in a way that the show's never allowed her to be. Even when she was "empowered" in season 6, she still needed to capitulate to Damon. She promised to put herself first, but she still gave the Ascendant to Damon when he strangled her, then later on went to confront a psychopath who wanted her dead to save Elena's life.
Therefore it was mentioned that she is sticking by Enzo's side and have him talk to and treat her badly to try and bring his humanity back and his no humanity used as an excuse to have him maybe verbally abuse or belittle her in the upcoming episodes.
And humanity!off Steroline taunted each other. Humanity!off Elena taunted the Salvatore bros. Humanity!off Stefan taunted Elena. ad nauseum. At the moment, it just seems to me that you're
relishing
the idea of Enzo insulting her. If Damon insulting and belittling Bonnie for 8 seasons did not stop you from shipping them, I don't see what moral high ground you have on this.
JP even said that they are using Bonnie to be the one to fight for Enzo and be his advocate, because no one else is there to fight for Enzo. So Bonnie has to be used as the character to prop him up and give him importance. The writers make it about Enzo making her happy, while the arc is actually about how Bonnie can serve and save Enzo's character. Like how she was used for the Gilbert's before. Staying loyal to saving them no matter how much she hurt and suffered for it.
And so what, exactly? Bonnie wasn't the love of Elena's life. She's Enzo's. So of course, she will advocate and fight for the man she loves. That is empowering. The only reason why you have a problem with this is because it's not Damon. Find/Replace Enzo in that paragraph for Damon and you're going to be over the moon about that story.
She was still in plot about dying/suffering with Enzo, the writers didn't completely end that because of Bonenzo, just sugarcoating it to make it seem like it's alright as long as Enzo is there or if it's for her love of Enzo.
I do not see any plot about Bonnie dying or suffering with Enzo. If anything, Bonnie has been letting other people die/suffer for him.
- Her being used as the plot device to save the day and the servant loyal to saving someone, this time it just happens to be Enzo over the others.
She's not a plot device - she literally
can't
be because she ha
- or you're reaching.
-
awesomebamon — 9 years ago(November 12, 2016 03:42 PM)
Damsel in distress? Nope she is being used to save Enzo. Many Bonnie fans enjoy seeing BOnnie with her magic and it's not just Bamon fans. You can't dismiss that just because you don't think it's important, lots of Bonnie fans still think that it is with Bonnie being a Bennett witch, some of us want to see Bonnie's magic as more explored.
Enzo being her boyfriend means that he is worth suffering in pain over? No not to many Bonnie fans he is not worth it and just because he is her boyfriend doesn't make him worth it to me. Not worth it to see Bonnie in a suicidal state over him, wanting to die over him, acting like her life is worthless without him.
Can't convince me that Bonnie is "empowered" talking about dying for or with a man. It's still her willing to die in the past being the magical negro, just without her magic.
Empowered would be her concerned for Enzo, but still having the self worth and self value in herself, to live without him in her life and not talking about how she wants to die without him or because she sees Caroline's happy life.
That is not a healthy type of love and it's not romantic. Sending a message that if a man is your boyfriend, it's okay for a woman to put all of her worth and life into him to the point that she is talking about wanting to die without him. Bonnie is magicless and her magic is not being used to save anyone. Yet, she is still suffering in pain about wanting to save Enzo, that's different from her saving others in magic how? Because she used her magic and her loving Jeremy/Elena as a reason to be okay with going out and suffering to save them.
Sorry but no amount of her loving Enzo, will make it romantic about her talking about wanting to die and kill herself, since that is unhealthy and toxic for any relationship. Saying that just because a man is a woman's boyfriend that it's okay for her to put all of her self worth into him.
May? So basically, you're hoping he does so you can have more arsenal for your anti-BE agenda then. Where were your complaints when Damon strangled Bonnie when he woke up from the Phoenix Stone and the writers brush
From people who have said that Bonnie was standing beside a no humanity Enzo in the last episode, even tho he was saying awful things to her. I didn't like Damon hurting Bonnie after the stone and hated that scene. Now if Enzo treats Bonnie badly and hurts her without his humanity are you going to excuse that?
They can write Enzo being as "devoted" to Bonnie as they want to, in order to cover up a toxic relationship, which is the fact that Bonnie is suicidal without him and talking about wanting to die without him. No amount of devotion, love or anything can make that alright in any type of relationship.
You're just as bad as you claim Bamon fans are if you excuse Bonnie's behavior and this toxic relationship, all on Bonnie loving Enzo or Enzo being devoted to her, therefore it makes her pain, suffering and suicidal thoughts is telling Caroline that she wants to die, okay and romantic.
If she said that she wanted to die for Damon then you wouldn't excuse it. You;re okay with her suffering for Enzo, as long as you can spin it that she is being "selfish" and doing it for her boyfriend. Yet would you be okay if it was for Damon, Elena or anyone else? Okay just because it's Enzo, yet want to call out Bamon fans.
Wouldn't be okay with it if everything that she went through with Damon, was for her love or care for him. So the double standard that you try to point my way can go your way.
Her saying that she is okay with dying by Enzo by her side or wanting to die without him, different from her dying for Jeremy and saying that she was alright with dying as long as Jeremy was alive, different how?
Seems like you have your own shipping bias that you want to preach to Bamon fans about having. If you can say that Bonnie is in pain for her "love" for Enzo, then it makes it okay, Yet would you be alright with her doing the same things for Damon or someone else.