Singer in "Sleuth" (1972) [PROBABLY FOREVER AN UNSOLVED MYSTERY]
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salzmank — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 12:54 PM)
WillEd
I apologize if this sounds glib, but did you read the whole post? I know it's long, but I gave all that background for a reason. About halfway through, I wrote this line: " I discovered that that version was sung by Leo Reisman, a candidate considered since the beginningand not the actual singer from Sleuth." I have just now changed that because the song wasn't actually sung by Mr. Reismanthe accompaniment is his orchestrabut it's the same as your 1929 Leo Reisman versionand not the version in
Sleuth
. The singer in
Sleuth
has a softer, more melodious voice (sorry for all the lay terms. I'm not a musician), I think; and, just to prove it, Frank Luther (the singer in the Leo Reisman version) says "tah tah" (or some sound like it) after the line "Do do that voodoo that you do so well," which the singer in
Sleuth
does not say. Mr. Reisman's versionsand Luther's vocals in particularhave been considered before (see
http://www.soundtrackcollector.com/forum/displayquestion.php?topicid=7598
) , but they're not it. So, respectfully, I would have to say that this still is "some mystery."
Thank you for searching, though, and all the best! -
WillEd — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 01:04 PM)
I don't care if he says "tah-tah" in one version and doesn't say it in another. That is the same arrangement and the same singer. I played them both together at the same time and the phrasing is the same. The differences you think are picking up in the tone of the voice is most likely from the from the quality of the record. There is no way the singing could be that close and not be the same singer.
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salzmank — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 01:27 PM)
OK, in that case I suppose we shall have to agree to disagree. Believe me, I don't want to drag this mystery out longer than it needs to be, but I just really feel that isn't itnor have other listeners, in fact, judging from the comments both on the Soundtrack Collector site and YouTube (look at the comments under the Olivier video)so I'm not alone in believing that. Like you, I played them together; I certainly don't feel that they have the same singer and even less so the same arrangement. I get what you're saying about the quality of the record, but I'm still not seeing (or hearing!) it. As for your last pointI first got interested in figuring this thing out a few months ago when I listened to the songs again. I didn't think about it again for a while, but, both in looking up details for posting today and having listened to many versions of "You Do Something to Me," I can confidently state that there are many, many singers with very similar sounding voices. That does not mean, of course, that any one of them sang the songs in
Sleuth
. (Sure, one of them could have. For the reasons I've stated, however, I don't think Mr. Luther is the right one.) Whether you're right or I am, I would be interested in knowing why you so quickly jumped to Luther as the singer. Did you know his voice before? Have you looked up this question before? This might be another good resource:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Classic-Film-2786/Cole-Porter-Sleuth-movie.htm
. Whichever one of us is right, though, thank you so much for looking into it!
I'd like to open this discussion up to everyone else who might be interested: do you think that Frank Luther is the singer in
Sleuth
? Are the YouTube commenters, the Soundtrack Collector commentators, and I rightor are we just hearing changes because of the quality of the record? Please comment! I'm interested in hearing everyone else's guesses! -
salzmank — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 01:56 PM)
Yes, he is awfully close, isn't he? And I like Luther's sound too, althoughyou're rightthe record doesn't help. That's a big problem with these songsso many voices that sound so similar! Oh, well, back to the old drawing board again
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WillEd — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 02:17 PM)
It has to be a recording from that year or not long after because later recordings like, say 1936, don't sing it like that. It sounds like the singers around then are copying the style of whoever first made the song famous.
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salzmank — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 02:22 PM)
Good point.
The only other possibility I could see is my ridiculous theory that someone sang it exclusively for the moviepurposely imitating the late 20s/early 30s style of someone like Frank Luther. That would explain a lot of the problems we have finding itbut it seems like an awful lot of trouble for something so relatively minimal and doesn't seem very likely. I'm hoping that we can look more into the whole question; the subject was broached in 2006 at Soundtrack Collector, and nobody has been able to find it from then to now. -
WillEd — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 03:50 PM)
You got songs from 1929, 1934 (Anything Goes) and 1935. I haven't heard AG, but I assume it has the same orchestra and same singer. This makes me think the songs were done for the movie.
You didn't have albums in those days. -
salzmank — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 04:27 PM)
Right. It is strange, though, if that's true, why they didn't put the name of the singer in the credits. I mean, even if the songs were created especially for the movie, someone had to sing them! It is nice to know that the evidence points to their being done for the movie, though.
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WillEd — 9 years ago(May 10, 2016 09:37 AM)
He is singing in that now defunct Mid Atlantic American accent where the r's are dropped on certain words. That was the accent that was easiest for British singers to copy when they wanted to sound American. It's no guarantee the singer is British. But on Anything Goes it is very obvious that's what he's doing. American singers of the era like Bing Crosby, Al Jolson, and Cliff Edwards didn't use it. But Rudy Valle and Fred Astaire (slightly) did.
Last thing
Something was bothering me about the "You do Something to Me" from SLEUTH. I couldn't put my finger on it, but it was off. It's this: On old records you get a long musical intro before the singer gets in it. Then they sing the whole song with no musical interruption, then you get the music of the song again. The fact the SLEUTH songs have short intros doesn't matter because they could be edited. But on that song, the only one where you hear the entire song, there's a music break before the final verse. That's unusual for that era. The Frank Luther version is sung all the way through with no breaks. -
salzmank — 9 years ago(June 17, 2016 04:56 PM)
I am very thankful to WillEd for all of his research in trying to figure out who sang the three Cole Porter songs in the movie
Sleuth
(1972). When he posted for the last time, he thought that someone sang the songs especially for the films, due in part to the fact that the singer has the Mid-Atlantic accent that many British and some American singers used in the '30s and that the "You Do Something to Me" from
Sleuth
has a musical break, whereas many versions from the era did not. I would have to say he's probably correctif people have been trying for years to find this singer, and no one has, then it's less likely he's actually a '30s singer. That still raises the question of "Who sang it?" of course, but, if someone sang the songs just for the movie, it may be one of those unanswerable questions, unfortunately. A sincere thank you again, WillEd. Also, if anyone else has done any research or is interested again in this question, or has any other thoughts, please respond! I agree with WillEd, but, hey, nothing is positive in this business!
Anyone out there with any more answers? -
salzmank — 9 years ago(June 18, 2016 11:56 AM)
Interestingly enough, I just foundwell, if not a lead, then at least something. A poster called "koyunbaba73" posted something a year ago that I happened by sheer chance to find on YouTube:
"Okay, so for those of you who were interested in learning who sings on these recordings, I haven't been able to find out for sure, however the voice reminded me quite a bit of the singer on Paper Moon. His name is (was?) Joe Cassidy. Like I said, I haven't been able to confirm this 100%, but it is a lead. If anyone can find out Whether it is in fact Joe Casssidy [sic], I would sure appreciate it if you could tell me. He did have a great voice."
I Googled Mr. Cassidy but was unable to find any information, even about his singing in
Paper Moon
. It's been a while since I've seen
Paper Moon
, so I can't say if the singer there sounded like the one in
Sleuth
to me. Anyway, is this another clueor another red herring? Amusing how the quest for the singer reaches the levels of a game or a mysteryit'd make Andrew Wyke proud.
Thoughts?
P.S. Here's the link to
Sleuth
on Youtube where "koyunbaba73" wrote his comments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNqXPV_bwL0 -
WillEd — 9 years ago(June 18, 2016 01:42 PM)
Here is Joe Cassidy. Not even close.
And notice it is done the way I said, no musical beak before the third verse, which became the norm sometime in the forties.
I'm pretty sure you have to be looking for a singer who did it for the movie. They wanted someone to sing three Cole Porter songs in a row and they would have had a hard time finding someone who did that from that era with the same orchestra with the first song from 1929 and the other two from the mid thirties. And they wouldn't have wanted the long musical interludes from that era. They had to get the visuals from the movie to fit the pacing of the song.
Cassidy is also hitting his R's hard. He does have a peculiar pronunciation for "laughter." He says "lofter." That's a British way of pronouncing it, but he still hits the "R" at the end. -
WillEd — 9 years ago(June 18, 2016 02:20 PM)
I did find an old record sung the forties way. But the singer, Johnny Marvin, is clearly not the SLEUTH singer.
Oops! The link didn't catch. But what does it matter? This guy definitely does not have a mid Atlantic accent. I linked it so you could hear the way the song was done with short intros and the break before the third verse is repeated. -
WillEd — 9 years ago(June 18, 2016 10:36 PM)
To clarify, the reason this matters it is a 1920's or early thirties record. But it seems kind of rare. He might be playing with a studio orchestra instead of a band and that might have something to do with it.
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gcarras — 9 years ago(February 04, 2017 11:11 AM)
I still hear the mid Atlantic accent anytime famous later character actress Holland Taylor talks, whether it's in Legally Blonde or anything..Elizabeth Banks,espo.in "Hunger Games" as ":Effie" uses that mid-Atalantic accent..MusicProf78 on YouTube as someone said, has a lot of answers..the long intro is something that I'm most familiar with..
PROFILE PIC:Courtney Thorne-Smith.