Singer in "Sleuth" (1972) [PROBABLY FOREVER AN UNSOLVED MYSTERY]
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salzmank — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 08:07 PM)
Oh, yeah, this is a big oneone of those great unsolved mysteries of the moviesbut, as much as I don't want to do it, I think I'll have to give up on it. WillEd and I went on for a while about it. He initially thought that Frank Luther sang them before we eventually decided that they were sung specially for the moviewhich hypothesis was confirmed by "MusicProf78." As to who sang them, though
Your guess is as good as mine. -
Byrdz — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 08:16 PM)
Might also ask on the Classics Board some of the folks there know the most seemingly trivial of trivia !
Edit : read more of the notes and I kinda like the Michael Caine idea
.
It would fit in with the whole fool-em-whenever-you-can idea of the film. -
salzmank — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 08:26 PM)
Hm! I'm ashamed to say that, even after all my searching about this movie, I still hadn't seen this before you pointed it out!
I will try to reach out to them; why not?
As hopeful as I am that the Classics Board, or anyone, knows the solution (i.e., who sang the songs), I've got to admit I'm skeptical after so many people over so many years (see all the links I posted in the [very] original post) have been searching for the answer.
Anyhoo, thanks for finding this. -
salzmank — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 08:45 PM)
Unfortunately, I just checked a sample of the "Anything Goes" on the two albums that that one poster suggested, and it's not it. Gee, I would like it to be the Michael Caine idea, but (1) I've never heard Caine sing and (2) the singer certainly doesn't have that famed Cockney accent of Caine's. Sure, he could have disguised his voice, but I don't know if he could have done it so muchit certainly sounds less like him than (SPOILER) the impression he does of a Welshman when he impersonates "Inspector Doppler," and that's definitely
trying
to fool you. It would fit with the theme, absolutely.
On the other hand, this shouldn't be such a difficult questionso, as unlikely as it sounds, I'm leaning towards the idea that the filmmakers hid the identity on purpose. Why didn't they name the singer in the credits? It seems to break every darn copyright law in the businessespecially if it's a then-contemporary singer, not a '30s or '40s singer whose renditions might have gone into public domain. Lord! I wish we could solve this mystery. I like the singer's voice, but I'm not crazy about it; I'd just like to answer these unanswerable questions once and for all. Maybe it's the human desire for mystery. Oh, well, no need to wax philosophical about it -
Fleur_de_lis — 9 years ago(September 29, 2016 09:24 PM)
Sorry I don't have time to devote to this right now, but in the past I have solved a couple of these by figuring out who paid to license the song, and then looking for the associated licensing info. It sounds like this was recorded for the film, so that's a starting point on year.
You might also send Ben Mankiewicz a tweet with a link to your post. He probably loves the movie and an answer may lie in family archives. -
salzmank — 9 years ago(September 30, 2016 06:13 AM)
Gee, the Ben Mankiewicz idea is great. I don't know if he'll respond, but, hey, who knows? Thanks for that.
No worries about your not researching this question! It's certainly not the most important problem in the world, or even closejust one of those silly little mysteries. I will take up your suggestions.
All the best! -
Byrdz — 9 years ago(October 02, 2016 04:03 AM)
Ok then. I have checked with my two resident friend "knowers of details" and BOTH of them are answerless on this one. One echoes the suggestion that it's a "faux vintage" singer and since this is of the time before those endless credits for even the stars dog-walker, we may never know.
My other expert had seen the thread but having nothing to add had passed it by but he has a suggestion about the phones on the other thread.
As for me I
really
like the in-joke idea of it being Michael Caine singers often become non-accented ! No doubt it isn't him but I just like the idea !
Thanks for this interesting thread. It's been fun. -
salzmank — 9 years ago(October 02, 2016 12:38 PM)
Oh, sure, you're welcome. The very fact that it
shouldn't
be such a big mystery is what got me interested in it to begin with.
Thanks for asking your two friends! Yes, I agree that we may never know, but it does seem strange that they would hire a singer to sing the songs specially for the movie, have a "music by" credit, even (for Pete's sake!) have credits for "sound recordist" and "music arranger," and still not credit this guy. Perhaps I'm just seeing too much into it.
It's a nice idea, that the singer is Michael Caine, but, yeah, I don't think so. I wonder if the singer is still alive and knows that so many people are interested in his identity. Y'know, someone could come up with a clever plot idea for a book based on this mystery.
I'll look in the other thread for your friend's thoughts about "the phone don't phone!"
And a sincere thank
you
for your help, Byrdz. It has been fun. -
salzmank — 9 years ago(January 24, 2017 08:50 PM)
I should probably keep quiet about this after all these months, but I just want to let everyone who helped with this question that there's a
little
bit of news, albeit nothing we didn't really already figure out on our own:
On one of the sitessoundtrackcollector.comI quoted early on, "lyncounion" posted the following on Jan. 15 (I didn't check until now):
"I'm pretty certain these are modern recordings.
"There are a number of giveaways, if you listen closely:- The arrangements of "You Do Something to Me" and "Anything Goes" do not stylistically fit the big band music of the period in that they start with a vocal verse instead of an instrumental verse. More significantly, in "Anything Goes" there are multiple instrumental verses after the vocal verse, which very conveniently occur exactly when the characters in the film start talking.
- The length of "You Do Something to Me" is barely over 2 minutes, short for a 78 of this style.
- The acoustic bass, on all the numbers, is very loud and well defined in the mix. Recording technology was not sufficiently advanced in the 30s to capture a rich bass sound like this.
- The snare fill played by the drummer at the beginning of "Anything Goes" (right after the bell rings), is uncharacteristic of the period. It's also quite loud and trebly, which wasn't easily captured in older recordings.
- In the same song, in the first measure of the verse the guitar and bass play a figure with a strong backbeat that would sound more common in the rock erarhythm sections didn't play like this in the 30's.
"I'm far from an expert on 1930's recordings or big-band music, but after listening to it on good headphones I think these are very well done fakes done by studio pros. I certainly could be wrong, but that so many people have been interested in this question and it hasn't been easily resolved makes it more likely that these vintage recordings don't actually exist. It's still a wonderful film.
"Your most humble servant,
St. John Lord Merridew."
Again, we already figured this out here; I just want to let everyone know.
Best,
salzmank
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WillEd — 9 years ago(January 25, 2017 12:14 AM)
Guess what? I found a singer who started in 1925 and it looks like in all his recordings he sings in what later became the standard. Short music into. Sings the song, short music break, then repeats the last two verses. I never heard of him until now, but he was very popular, so I think my theory before was correct. If a singer was popular enough, that is the way it went, but if the focus is the orchestra, the singer is second fiddle to that and has to wait until the orchestra starts before he gets to sing and usually does it fast, like so they can get back to the orchestra.
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salzmank — 9 years ago(January 28, 2017 09:51 PM)
WillEd
So does that just support the theory that these are modern recordings?
To everyone
Thanks for your supportand some news!
I ended up dragged again down this rabbit hole because of that new Soundtrack Collector post, and now I found what I think is a new lead that, God willing, may actually result in something ofif not an answer, maybe a clearing up of some mysteries.
While most of the crew who worked on
Sleuth
have passed on, according to IMDb's
Sleuth
page, there was an uncredited re-recording mixer named Graham V. Hartstone who worked on the movieand Mr. Hartstone is still alive!
After a bit of searching, I found an e-mail address for him here and sent him an e-mail. Now it all depends on (1) if he receives the e-mail, (2) if he responds to it, and (3) if he knows who the singer was/is. This will be interesting
(I hope that, as he was the re-recording/dubbing mixer, he knows who it was.)
Now we just all hope and pray, right? -
WillEd — 9 years ago(January 28, 2017 11:08 PM)
It means it could be an old recording because the modern method was sometimes used then, but I still think they are modern recordings. My gut tells me they are not authentic from that period. The singer obviously is not someone famous and you still have the problem of three Cole Porter songs from the same singer and one of the songs is from the twenties while the other two are mid thirties and the orchestra is the same in all three. The two from the thirties could possibly be A and B sides on the same record. The twenties one is harder to explain.
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salzmank — 9 years ago(January 29, 2017 04:47 AM)
And, just like that, from a bang to a whimper.
D'après
Mr. Hartstone:
"I have had this enquiry before, a few years ago and I'm afraid I wasn't able to spread any light on this conundrum. I don't know if anyone is around who worked for Palomar Pictures - there may be a paper trail showing who either paid or paid for the vocalist.
"Sorry I can't be more help.
"Kind regards
"Graham."
I suppose I am disappointed but not really surprised: the universe can't make things can't all that easy, eh? I will follow up upon Mr. Hartstone's recommendation but do not expect to find anythingand then shall leave this thread until I or someone else finds something new. So I expect this thread to go quiet once again for quite a while, but know that, if ever I do find something, I'll be back.
Best,
Salzmank