Why do people dislike Merle Oberon?
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ianthe95 — 16 years ago(July 27, 2009 05:14 PM)
According to interviews given by William Wyler, Vivien was offered the part of Isabella. Wyler told her she couldn't expect to do better than that for her first American film(or words to that effect). Of course, the rest is history. Viven showed them by playing a little character called Scarlett!
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silcock-2 — 16 years ago(July 30, 2009 04:29 AM)
I think i would rather play Cathy than Scarlett, she's a better character(talking about the novels). But,yep Vivien proved them all wrong and got the biggest part in Hollywood. But, my point was Larry/Vivien lovers seem to enjoy films were they play opposite eachother, so i was saying this might be behind some of Merle bashing i've seen going on with Olivier/Leigh fans, resentment that she got the part instead.
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ianthe95 — 16 years ago(July 31, 2009 12:38 PM)
Yes, I see your point. I am a Viv/Larry fan, but also like Merle and think she was quite good in the role.
I also think that Vivien would have been wonderful.
I was pointing out that Vivien was never offered the part of Cathy. -
Dr_Miklos_Rozsa — 16 years ago(September 22, 2009 10:07 PM)
The reason why she was incredibly beautiful in PIMPERNEL is because the film was shot years before Merles cosmetic poisoning incident during the filming of 'TIL WE MEET AGAIN (1940) and the devastating 1937 London car crash during the filming of the never-finished I, CLAUDIUS.
The only scar or disfigurement Merle had during PIMPERNEL was the one below her waist, since she developed a bout of ovarian cancer in 1933 and they were surgically removed. Sadly, due to their removal, she could never have children. Happily, she adopted two kids later in her life and adored them until the day she died.
"I do write music for people, not for computers."- Dr. Mikls Rzsa (1907-1995)
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wowcharlie3 — 16 years ago(January 30, 2010 05:50 PM)
I would like to read a book about her, because I don't know anything about her other than she played Cathy, was married to a Korda and denied her heritage, even having her mother pose as a maid. Again, i don't know anything about her, but I'd like to know a little abiut her background, her relationship with her mother and the like.
I do think Vivien Leigh would have been a better Cathy, but thank goodness, she wasn't, because she would never have played Scarlett. -
Dr_Miklos_Rozsa — 16 years ago(February 18, 2010 01:09 PM)
Try
Goldwyn: A Biography
by A. Scott Berg on Merle's successful career as a contract star at Samuel Goldwyn Productions.
"I do write my music for people, not for computers."- Dr. Mikls Rzsa (1907-1995)
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nateba — 16 years ago(February 22, 2010 01:57 PM)
Why do people dislike Merle Oberon?
Just a thoughtbut possibly the idea that she might have gained career leverage by virtue of her marriage to Alexander Korda. That and the fact that she was stunningly beautiful would possibly not endear her to a number of female fans. My wife isn't crazy about Jennifer Jones who had a similar situation. And there's a touch of 'don't hate me because I'm beautiful' to her. At least my wife thinks so.
It's just a thought. I only offer this by way of explanation.
cinefreak -
Dr_Miklos_Rozsa — 16 years ago(February 23, 2010 05:20 PM)
Just a thoughtbut possibly the idea that she might have gained career leverage by virtue of her marriage to Alexander Korda.
Her screen career was successful long before she married Korda, in which she found herself a contract player for Korda's London Films studio. The first role in which she received notices was Anne Boleyn in THE PRIVATE LIVE OF HENRY VIII (1933) despite the fact her screen time in the film was very brief (after all, the film begins on the day of Anne's execution). Then she was second-billed in THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL (1934) alongside Leslie Howard and then she became a top star in Britain. Then Korda arranged her to be cast in Samuel Goldwyn's THE DARK ANGEL (1935) in Hollywood after Merle expressed great enthusiasm in the role of Kitty Vane (Merle's favorite film as a youngster was the 1925 silent version of THE DARK ANGEL). This soon led her into becoming a very lucky contract player for both Samuel Goldwyn Productions and London Films. A year later, in 1936, she was top-billed in Goldywn's BELOVED ENEMY and remained top-billed in several of her British and Hollywood films during the late 1930s and 1940s.
I really think her marriage to Korda was an act of gratitude rather than love. After all, wouldn't you be enormously grateful to someone who helped make you something you've always wanted to be? Plus, Merle liked suave older men, especially Leslie Howard in his dressing room during production of THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL.
"I do write my music for people, not for computers."- Dr. Mikls Rzsa (1907-1995)
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nateba — 16 years ago(February 24, 2010 06:03 AM)
especially Leslie Howard in his dressing room during production of THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL.
Leslie Howard evidently really got around in those days! Humphrey Bogart was quoted (quite colorfully, of course) in regard to Howard's success with women.
When you ask about her popularity are you referring to her hayday or her current (retrospective) popularity?
In regard to her and Korda, even if everything you say is correct, people's perceptions, particularly women's perceptions, might influence such things. Was she known to be involved with Korda during the mid 30's (after "Pimpernel" but before they were married)?
I admit that I'm not too familiar with her life and career.
cinefreak -
Dr_Miklos_Rozsa — 16 years ago(February 24, 2010 10:42 AM)
When you ask about her popularity are you referring to her hayday or her current (retrospective) popularity?
Her current (retrospective) popularity.
Was she known to be involved with Korda during the mid 30's (after "Pimpernel" but before they were married)?
I'd say she was involved with Korda in 1937 to 1939, when she was back in England to star in the aborted production of I, CLAUDIUS and in other Korda films like THE DIVORCE OF LADY X. However, she spend the last months of 1938 and the first months of 1939 in Hollywood to star in WUTHERING HIEGHTS and so she missed Alex terribly. They married on June 3, 1939 and Alexander was knighted in Buckingham Palace as Sir Alexander Korda in 1942, so for a few years Merle was known as Lady Korda! But they divorced in June 1945 so Merle could marry a humble yet brilliant Hollywood cinematographer, Lucien Ballard! Watch the Merle films THE LODGER (1944) and BERLIN EXPRESS (1946) and you'll see what a terrific black-and-white cinematographer Ballard was.
In 1936 she was romantically involved with David Niven, but he dumped her in favor of Virginia Bruce.
By the way, I wouldn't call Merle a slut or anything like that. She was just an extremely romantic woman and loved the prospect of being in love with someone of the opposite sex. That's why she collected scores of inexpensive romance novels as a teenager living in near-poverty in India (including Emily Bronte's
Wuthering Heights
) and one of her favorite movies was the silent romantic melodrama THE DARK ANGEL (1925).
"I do write my music for people, not for computers."- Dr. Mikls Rzsa (1907-1995)
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nateba — 16 years ago(February 24, 2010 12:15 PM)
By the way, I wouldn't call Merle a slut or anything like that.
I would never call any woman a slut. (Unless I found out that my wife was sleeping with a football team. That might push me over the edge). I'm not a moralist.
But the way in which other women react to her might have a bearing as to how she's regarded in retrospect.
(I saw "The Lodger" a while back, by the way. I thought she was quite good. But IMHO, Laird Cregar overshadowed everyone in that film).
When I think of the actresses of the past whose names come up for discussion now, I think of 'tough broads' like Davis and Crawford or beauties that tended to suffer alot like Garbo. Maybe plucky working class types like Jean Arthur. Dietrich, who had the great fortune to hook up with von Sternberg. (Or Myrna Loy whom I have a big retroactive crush on).
It might be that Oberon falls into the category (rightly or wrongly) of 'aloof beauty who doesn't suffer). I think women have a hard time identifying with that type. (See, Garbo was beautiful but she made up for it by suffering!)
I'll have to watch some more of her films. That's another thing. Speaking for myself, if I'm trolling (not a good word to use on IMDB I'll admit) the TCM schedule, I'll tend to look for a combination of era, director, supporting players and plot before I'll program my DVR. The stuff she did tends not to be in my purview (with the exception of "Pimpernel" and "Wuthering Heights"). Other than those two what would you recommend as exemplary?
cinefreak -
Dr_Miklos_Rozsa — 16 years ago(February 24, 2010 02:18 PM)
Other than those two what would you recommend as exemplary?
You can spot two magnificent yet very rare Merle films on my YouTube account page:
http://www.youtube.com/user/PeterAndres18
Since both films made it in Lawrence J. Quirk's very reliable and trustworthy Citadel Press book
The Great Romantic Films
and one of them stars the great Claude Rains, both films are well worth watching if you like romantic films and if you want to watch some more of Merle's films. A few good Merle films that are shown on TCM include THESE THREE (1936), 'TIL WE MEET AGAIN (1940), and FIRST COMES COURAGE (1943). THE DARK ANGEL (1935), which won Merle her first and unfortunately only Oscar nomination, is also occasionally shown on TCM although it last aired on August 25, 2009 as part of an all-day Merle marathon.
"I do write my music for people, not for computers."- Dr. Mikls Rzsa (1907-1995)
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TommyPman — 15 years ago(February 22, 2011 11:34 AM)
I've only see Merle in two movies, "Wuthering Heights" and "These Three" but I found her performance excellent in both. I thought her performance as Katherine was brilliant and in my opinion, the only reason people may have for wanting it to have been Vivien Leigh in the role is because they want to see the two on screen togther. That is a silly reason to not like a person in a role, Merle was excellent. I don't think Vivien could have done any better.
Guns don't kill people, metaphors kill people! -
HollyHop — 14 years ago(December 15, 2011 10:31 PM)
I'm so late for this board but I watched the film first today.
I had never heard about Merle before, I can't remember ever seeing her in any other films and I had no knowledge of Olivier's and Leight's affair.
While watching Wuthering Heights I couldn't help thinking how common she looked. She's not my cup of tea with her rounded face and short lips, I thought Geraldine Fitzgerald were better looking, and even though I'm a woman I felt more envious of Olivier's good looks, he were really lucky in that department.
I just thought that Heatcliff were so enthralled with Cathy because they had been close since childhood. She wasn't just a woman he had met but a long time friend.
I liked Merle's acting though.
Don't tell me, it's no use to me. Tell yourself if you want to but don't tell me.