What's the point of Herb
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Karantino — 13 years ago(December 04, 2012 06:51 PM)
I don't know; the things I've learned about Hitchcock over the years have me conflicted about whether he would or wouldn't "insert" himself into his films save for the cameos. I remember watching an interview (which may be on the Hitchcock collection that was recently released) where someone who worked with Hitchcock said that he had such a great imagination that he didn't have to use his own life to supplement his films. At the same time, there are little things, like naming the mother Emma, just like Hitchcock's mother.
Nevertheless, I'm still not sure that Hitchcock would alter a character (Herb) that someone else had written just for the purpose of mirroring himself. -
rexshard93 — 13 years ago(December 04, 2012 07:53 PM)
Alfred Hitchcock and his wife Alma Reville worked on the scripts of every Hitchcock film. Alfred Hitchcock worked with Thornton Wilder and later with Sally Benson in the scripting process of this film. Alfred Hitchcock deliberately added symbolisms in the script and in the film. Hitchcock talked about this when he talked to Truffaut in Hitchcock/Truffaut Interview.
Let me give you couple of examples other than Herbie Hawkins.
Hitchcock's middle name is Joseph. Joseph Newton is the father of the family. There are 3 children in the Newton family. Like Roger, Alfred Hitchcock was the third and the youngest in his family. Ann Newton reads the book of Ivanhoe. Alfred Hitchcock knew the story of Ivanhoe by heart when he was young. Uncle Charlie's bicycle accident happened to Hitchcock when he was young.
Young Charlie drove the car in the family. Hitchcock's wife Alma Reville loved driving. Like Joseph Newton, Hitchcock refuses to drive the car.
Another symbolism in this film is where Hitchcock, Thornton Wilder, and Alma Reville added vampire references throughout the film to provide a symbolic meaning of Uncle Charlie and his inner self. -
Karantino — 13 years ago(December 04, 2012 08:58 PM)
I'm not claiming to be a Hitchcock expert, but I am aware of everything written in your post (a lot of it is in the trivia section as welldid you contribute to it?). That's why I mentioned the bit about the mother being called Emma. I can see Hitchcock adding "surface" characterization, but I'm still not convinced he would model a character too much on himself. I could be wrong, though; it's been years since I've read his biographies.
Also, I was under the impression that Alma mainly worked on the continuity of the screenplays.
I'm not sure of the point of your last paragraph. Yes, there are references to Uncle Charlie as a vampire (rising when the shades are drawn, the dialogue about the same blood, etc.), but how does that relate to this topic?
Anyway, do you really disagree that the Herb, and his exchanges with the father, were meantat least in partas comic relief? I'm sure you know Hitchcock had a great sense of humor. -
rexshard93 — 13 years ago(December 04, 2012 09:46 PM)
Before I go into the subject of Vampire references, let's go into Herbie Hawkins.
I do agree with you that one of the purposes of Herbie's exchanges with father has to do with Hitchcock's dark humor. But the other purpose was to show Herbie's obsession with the subject of murder. We later see how his obsession with the subject of murder drove him to save Young Charlie from her death.
With the subject of Vampire references, I was trying to point out that Hitchcock and Alma Reville were very precise in development of each scene in the script. Each Scene was done with a purpose. They also added symbolisms to serve this purpose. I agree that Alma Reville was a continuity writer. But she was also a brilliant critic in checking if there is any flaw during the development of each scene. Alfred Hitchcock also called Alma Reville "A Constant Collaborator." -
jreedha — 13 years ago(March 31, 2013 01:01 AM)
It's Shakespearean comic relief - think the grave digger in Hamlet.
Also it serves to underscore the banality and conformity of small town life. The two "murderous" men were playing at mayhem within their safe and sheltered lives. They were oblivious to genuine evil, even when it sat across the table. They were like cub scouts telling ghost stories in the safety of a backyard tent. The world outside is a "cruel sty" as Uncle says, but inside the little bubble, horror is only a game.
There's a case to be made that there's something to that in life today. Horror & fear are everywhere, but when safe and fed many seek the thrill of pretend horror in movies (like Shadow) or even roller coasters. It's only fun when one has the luxury of a full stomach and warm bed - and can reasonably depend on security and safety. But Hitch reminds us - we are never really safe - not safe at all. -
Petronius Arbiter II — 11 years ago(April 15, 2014 09:24 AM)
Also it serves to underscore the banality and conformity of small town life. The two "murderous" men were playing at mayhem within their safe and sheltered lives. They were oblivious to genuine evil, even when it sat across the table.
^This.
"I don't deduce, I observe." -
dillonfries — 12 years ago(June 08, 2013 09:14 PM)
Many of the above points are accurate, but the dialogue with the father and Herb is what tipped off the Uncle they were passing by him and his niece, and mentioned the pursuit of the suspect in MASS. who ended up running into the airplane propeller.
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Disardor — 11 years ago(July 12, 2014 01:43 PM)
It's another example of the film's recurring theme of darkness lurking just beneath the veneer of small town normality. Charlie's father is a banker and Herbert is a mousy, ordinary looking man, and to look at either of them you'd never suspect they spend their free time "relaxing" by concocting scenarios by which to commit the perfect murder.
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amyghost — 11 years ago(July 13, 2014 06:23 AM)
Absolutely. And to continue the joke, they're concocting these 'perfect murder' scenarios all the while there's an actual murderer right in front of them, whom they never for a moment suspect.
And after alljust as Jack says to Charlie about her uncleThink. Just how much do we know about Herbie Hawkins? -
PopperTheKungFuDragn — 10 years ago(August 04, 2015 07:40 PM)
I think it was to create an atmosphere of ironytheir fascination with murder was pointless because they had a live-in murderer down the hall. Personally, I thought it was perfect, but I guess it fell flat for a lot of viewers because Herb and the father were never aware of it.
This was the best answer.
R.I.P. Rick Ducommun and Tony Longo -
ElMaruecan82 — 9 years ago(June 20, 2016 04:01 AM)
I thought the point was to have that friend from the family who always comes after the dinner started, showing that it's the kind of harmless and peaceful town where the door is always open and any guest is at home. Plot-wise, it doesn't play a significant part until the crucial night where Uncle Charlie tried to kill his niece a second time, for all the precautions he took (putting on loud music, closing the curtains) he didn't count on the last-minute arrival of Herb, Herb who heard someone knocking on the garage's door and alerted the family.
That was Herb's contribution to the plot, and a crucial one. Of course, when you add an extra-character, you ought to give him a little substance and that's what Hitch did with the morbid conversations abour murder, and they weren't useless as they made Young Charlie snap and tell them to stop because she was tired of hearing about murders.
So Herb was far from being a pointless character, he and the father triggered Uncle Charlie's suspicions, he saved Young Charlie and, of course, he was a comic relief.
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