'Indians' is Now Politically Incorrect
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — And Then There Were None
Harold_Robbins — 14 years ago(January 07, 2012 11:18 AM)
The current U.S. edition of AND THEN THERE WERE NONE, published by Harper Paperbacks, reflects the text of the current U.K. edition published by HarperCollins UK in 2007 - to my great surprise, I found that "Indian Island" is now "Soldier Island," and the poem that structures the plot is now "Ten Little Soldier Boys"!!!
"In
my
case, self-absorption is
completely
justified." -
oldblackandwhite — 14 years ago(March 19, 2012 09:49 PM)
"who the hell cares if it's politically incorrect?"
Oh, I think it is just so dreadful to be polically incorrect! And this "Ten Little Soldier Boys" is the worst yet! Why, it is demeaning to members of the armed services, and if you don't care about them (what polically correct type would?), then think how insensitive it is to people of challenged stature (little ones)! Properly it should be "Ten non-ethnic, gender neutral persons of an undetermined size."
When the lunatics are in control of asylum, learn to think whacko.
He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good St. Matthew 5:45 -
GoUSN — 12 years ago(August 25, 2013 06:55 AM)
Agreed. Standards of "politically correct" always reduces life and vibrancy to the insipid and foolish. It empties thoughts of anything real. The instigators are usually marginal "activist" types who lack any world outside their tiny preoccupations.
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boxerrebellion — 10 years ago(September 30, 2015 07:06 PM)
Well, there are two points
- It is a snapshot of the times it is written, and I don't think that it should necessarily be changed just like I don't think that the language of Huck Finn should be changed - Twain was trying to make a point.
- There is a museum in DC that is dedicated to the indigenous people of America; it is part of the Smithsonian and people of the Tribes in the US were very much involved in the planning and structure. It is named The Museum of the American Indian. Personally, I think that they get to choose what they are called.
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moviemadness2012 — 12 years ago(August 29, 2013 12:32 PM)
It's not just the censoring of the word "Indian", but the removal of anti-Semitic text in the book as well.
Those who cry PC need to calm down. It's not like the original text was erased from the face of the Earth. The original version can be had for FREE at archive.org. If you don't like the PC version, don't buy it; very simple, isn't it? This version is obviously made for grade schools or high-schools, where you want to teach students primarily about the beauty of classic literature, and not antiquated racial views of the time (which belongs more in advanced history classes).
And some of those remarks are truly antiquated. E.g. "That little Jew had been damned mysterious. He had said it in a casual way as though a hundred guineas was nothing to him. He had fancied, though, that the little Jew had not been deceived - that was the damnable part about Jews, you couldn't deceive them about money - they knew!"
Most parents would agree that you just aren't ready to discuss with 3rd-6th graders about the meaning and historical significance behind those comments.
Having said that, in eliminating certain text, the new version made some editing errors as well. E.g. Chapter 1 goes from section I, II, III, then jumps to V, and IV is missing. Apparently, IV is where the anti-Semitic remarks are. -
mrwiseman-1 — 12 years ago(September 14, 2013 06:42 PM)
Actually when we scrub these books we deny kids the opportunity to learn from history. It gives students a real perspective on racial historyIt can be used as a positive force.
It is like painting a bikini over a famous nude painting. It isn't politically correctness it is censorship. Books should be published as they were first published unless edited by the author. -
Rontrigger — 11 years ago(January 17, 2015 10:17 PM)
The book already has been censoredand in the remote past. I have the 32nd printing of the Pocket Books version, from 1973, and the passage you quoted appears thus:
"Morris had been damned mysterious. He had fancied, though, that Morris had not been deceivedthat was the damnable part about Morris, you couldn't deceive him about moneyhe
knew!
"
And then, of course, there was the book's original title. Remarkable that, in 1940, with racism openly permeating so many facets of American society, that original title would not have flown on this side of the Atlantic, but the original publisher, Dodd, Mead, certainly thought so. Hence the change from "N-word" to "Indians." (And the common substitution of "And Then There Were None.")
"You can't have Ennis without Jack."Annie Proulx -
borg1005-1 — 12 years ago(November 07, 2013 09:00 AM)
I found that "Indian Island" is now "Soldier Island," and the poem that structures the plot is now "Ten Little Soldier Boys"!!!
. . . for now. Soon there will be a hue and cry about "gender-specific" titles and it will probably be changed to something like "Ten little persons" . . . until someone who is "height-challenged" will complain and the title will again be changed . . . and the beat goes on.
It's similar to one TV station cancelling a Charlie Chan movie marathon because some professional victim outfit claimed it made the Chinese look bad - and the executives folded.
Just once, dear Lord, I'd like to see some outfit challenged on these ground to just say, "Deal with it. Next?" -
ChorusGirl — 12 years ago(January 01, 2014 09:48 PM)
the book is now frequently on summer reading lists for students. It is quite likely that parents complained at some point. I have worked at a bookstore and at Random House publishers in NYCI can assure you that no matter what books are assigned for summer reading in schools, some parent always always always complains and makes a stink.
Don't get caught up in thinking "political correctness" is some new liberal thingas religious conservatives have been banning books for ages and demanding changes to books and movies since both mediums began.
This is nothing new. -
jashobeam5 — 11 years ago(October 03, 2014 04:51 PM)
That is greatly overstating the "religious conservatives" part in book banning. Many books on the banned list are used in ultra conservative schools, but are not allowed in public schools often because they are not PC enough. The PC stuff has gotten way out of hand. Some Americans are considering banning the term "redskins" when most American Indians do not find that term offensive. Speedy Gonzales was banned from the US because it supposedly made Mexicans look bad. Know where it is popular? Mexico! PC is another name for liberal brainwashing.
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MsELLERYqueen2 — 11 years ago(January 09, 2015 11:38 PM)
Some of the changes to other Agatha Christie novels I've come across:
I read one version of
"Three-Act Tragedy"
in which they changed the motive for the murder. I have no idea why they would have done this.
More current versions of
"Lord Edgware Dies"
don't include certain references to Jewish people. I once read the unabridged version and boy did I get an "earful" from Dame Agatha.
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JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen -
Harold_Robbins — 10 years ago(April 21, 2015 01:24 PM)
I read one version of "Three-Act Tragedy" in which they changed the motive for the murder. I have no idea why they would have done this.
It is my understanding that the change was made to the US edition because the motive for the murder would not have applied here. But as far as I know it's been restored for the current edition, one good thing about HarperCollins now being Christie's US and UK publisher is that they've reverted to the original British texts. One Christie, THE MOVING FINGER, was published in an abbreviated form in the US - and remained so until recently - because of an error made at the time of publication - Dodd, Mead was given the slightly shortened version that had been prepared for newspaper serialization (a lucrative subsidiary right at the time) and no one noticed!
In
my
case, self-absorption is
completely
justified. -
MsELLERYqueen2 — 10 years ago(April 21, 2015 03:18 PM)
It is my understanding that the change was made to the US edition because the motive for the murder would not have applied here.
?????
Why should that matter? It's a story which was written in Britain in the 1930s, not in contemporary times in North America.
One Christie, THE MOVING FINGER, was published in an abbreviated form in the US - and remained so until recently -
About 7 years ago, I checked out a handful of Christie novels from the library which were likely condensed. I didn't even realized it until I found some unabridged versions of those stories
~~
JimHutton (1934-79) and ElleryQueen -
Harold_Robbins — 11 years ago(March 13, 2015 04:32 PM)
The 75th Anniversary editions published in 2014 in thr UK and US by HarperCollins featured the current text ("Soldier Island") and were published as AND THEN THERE WERE NONE. I don't think we're likely to ever see it published under either of the TEN LITTLE titles again.
In
my
case, self-absorption is
completely
justified.