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  3. (Given that the Native American parts ought to have been played by Native Americans:)

(Given that the Native American parts ought to have been played by Native Americans:)

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    Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Broken Arrow


    bastasch8647 — 17 years ago(April 21, 2008 12:02 AM)

    (Given that the Native American parts ought to have been played by Native Americans:)
    Wasn't Debra Paget beautiful. She had the exactly-fitting grace and beauty to perfectly portray "the Apache maiden, Sonseearay." I believe she was only eighteen at the time (1950), fresh out of high school. Whatever magic the makeup department applied to transform her into a Native American was enhanced by her refined and finely-etched performance. It's a wonder that James Stewart and Jeff Chandler did not fall for her (maybe they did!). Rarely has the camera captured such loveliness. Debra Paget became my first movie-star crush when, as a kid, I saw "Arrow" on black and white TV. Now, having seen it in glorious color, Paget looks even more lovely than I remembered her (For another similar, amazing transformation, view Jean Simmons as a Nepalese girl in "Black Narcissus.)

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          jib122-1 — 17 years ago(August 15, 2008 11:19 PM)

          You seriously need to rethink 2 of these three claims.

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            kwb400 — 17 years ago(August 18, 2008 07:56 AM)

            Howcan he say two of those things? You are right, he needs to rethink his statements.

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              mhmohawks — 17 years ago(August 19, 2008 09:43 PM)

              From this movie she is one of the most beutiful people to portay an Indian. To call this film racist is crazy.
              IT IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE FILMS TO SHOWN INDIANS IN ATPOSITIVE LIGHT. IT DESERVES FAR MOR CREDIT THAN IT GOT. THEY WERE PIONEERS LONG BEFORE DANCES WITH WOLVES. AS SEVERAL OTHER DID TOO.
              tOP NOTCH GREAT WESTERN

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                gkirkbo — 17 years ago(November 22, 2008 09:30 PM)

                Sad to say, but this movie did have an odd type of behind-the-scenes racism about itIn the movie, Debra Paget's character was killedThis was mostly a true story until the endingThe real Shoshonnarey was not killed and she and Tom Jeffords had a long marriageThe producers, etc wanted her character to die as a statement that inter-racial marriage is bad.

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                  Captain_Augustus_McCrae — 15 years ago(January 10, 2011 11:10 AM)

                  "The real Sons-ee-array" What the hell are you talking about? There was no real Sons-ee-array! At least none that married Tom Jeffords. The Apache woman of that name mentioned in Cremony's book is clearly not married to Jeffords. The romance part of the film was completely fictional. Quit trying to make political points with lies that you pull out of your @$$.
                  "It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's living!!!"
                  Augustus McCrae

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                    rye-bread — 13 years ago(January 14, 2013 05:29 AM)

                    Sonseeahray not historical; at least not a marriage to Tom. Alas, my starry-eyed daydream is dashed.

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                      Captain_Augustus_McCrae — 13 years ago(March 04, 2013 01:36 PM)

                      Rye bread,
                      There was an Apache woman named Sons-ee-ah-ray, but she had no connection whatsoever with Tom Jeffords. Her only historical mention is in the book, Life Among the Apache, by John C. Cremony, published in 1869, IIRC, and available in recent reprints. She is described as a young woman in her teens, of surpassing beauty. I have no doubt this real person was the basis for the character played by Debra Paget.
                      "It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's LIVING!"
                      Captain Augustus McCrae

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                        rye-bread — 13 years ago(March 05, 2013 03:26 AM)

                        I picked up on that while following the weblink trail. Was reading a book excerpt at Google Books; can't remember which one. Might've been the book by Eliot Arnold which the movie was based on. It mentioned what you're saying; that a real Sonseeahray was the basis for the char. Was disappointed that this was fictional, as was the Apache marriage vows.

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                          waldenpond88 — 13 years ago(August 15, 2012 07:44 AM)

                          Hi gkirkbo,
                          How did you find out that she lived happily ever after with Tom Jeffords? On Wikipedia she is not even mentioned and I couldn't google her.
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Jeffords

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                            waldenpond88 — 13 years ago(August 15, 2012 07:48 AM)

                            I googled her once more and she was invented for the movie:
                            The original text of the Apache Wedding Prayer derives from Elliott Arnolds 1947 novel Blood Brother, which was adapted into a screenplay for the 1950 Jimmy Stewart/Jeff Chandler film Broken Arrow. The book and film are fictionalized accounts of the historically-documented friendship betweem Tom Jeffords and the Apache leader Cochise during the Apache Wars.
                            To keep the fictionalized Tom Jeffords company, Arnold invented a beautiful young Apache maiden named Sonseeahray as a love interest and, as Arnold concedes in the books preface, he also invented the wedding rite depicted in the book. No such Apache ritual exists, according to historians John E. OConnor and Angela Aleiss; Arnolds wording of the ceremony of love is significantly different from the version we know today
                            See more here:
                            http://www.tucsonministers.com/wedding-readings/origin-of-the-benediction-of-the-apaches/

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                              rye-bread — 13 years ago(January 14, 2013 05:25 AM)

                              Been search-engine-ing to find some mention of a real historical Sonseeahray. This is the 1st thing Ive seen. 10-Q. Im encouraged to keep on looking.

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                                Skye_Reynolds — 10 years ago(February 20, 2016 10:27 AM)

                                Sad to say, but this movie did have an odd type of behind-the-scenes racism about itIn the movie, Debra Paget's character was killedThis was mostly a true story until the endingThe real Shoshonnarey was not killed and she and Tom Jeffords had a long marriageThe producers, etc wanted her character to die as a statement that inter-racial marriage is bad.
                                I thought that was the case as well, but I didn't realize when I first saw this film that it was (loosely) based on a true story. I don't know how reliable it is, but Wikipedia says that Jeffords's wife was killed in a raid shortly after their marriage.
                                Fox was obviously a bit tentative about the interracial relationship, or else they would have had an actual American Indian playing the part, but I don't think it's as simple as killing her off to show that such relationships are forbidden.
                                Fox made another western where Debra Paget played an Indian and she and her white husband lived happily ever after.

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                                  Captain_Augustus_McCrae — 9 years ago(October 12, 2016 08:32 AM)

                                  Wikipedia doesn't say anything at all about Jeffords even being married, much less losing his wife in a raid. What orifice did you pull this story out of?
                                  "It ain't dying I'm talking about, it's LIVING!"
                                  Captain Augustus McCrae

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                                    dancingmike — 17 years ago(January 22, 2009 11:27 AM)

                                    Today's standards can't be overlaid to the past. Most girls in those days were wives at 15 or 16. They were considered women as soon as their puberty began. Hey, just like the multiple wife Mormons of today believe. Now that's pedophilia, not what happened in the 1870s.
                                    While the film actually shows native Americans in a positive light (unlike what I was taught in school) there is a significant racist point raised in the film. Heaven forbid we should be horrified by having a white man especially James Stewart marry a member of an inferior race. Better to have her killed off. After all, it was national policy to consider native Americans expendable.
                                    The film was based on real people and I was very glad to see another comment that pointed out the couple actually had a long married life.
                                    This is a practice that hasn't gone away, though. In the current TV program, Dirty, Sexy Money the transgendered woman in a love affair with one of the principal characters ended up being shot. Everything old is new again.

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                                      Errington_92 — 14 years ago(December 06, 2011 11:13 AM)

                                      there is a significant racist point raised in the film. Heaven forbid we should be horrified by having a white man especially
                                      James Stewart marry a member of an inferior race. Better to have her killed off.
                                      Personally I do not view the death of Sonseeahray as being a part of a racist agenda from the film makers. It would contradict the entire film. I viewed Sonseeahray's death as a reminder of the racism conveyed by some of the characters within
                                      Broken Arrow
                                      . That although there were people such as Tom who were open minded, there still were people who were narrow minded. Therefore people like Tom should continue being open minded and not let Sonseeahray's death be in vain.
                                      "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not".

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                                        rye-bread — 13 years ago(January 14, 2013 06:05 AM)

                                        This is an intelligent and nuanced POV. This is the POV of someone interested in reconciling & dialogue instead of divisiveness.

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                                          EtaoinShrdlu001 — 10 years ago(October 29, 2015 11:56 PM)

                                          It's pretty much what Cochise and the final Voice Over said, too.
                                          I prefer the toad less raveled

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