Lesbian Subtext?
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MyMovieTVRomance — 12 years ago(July 28, 2013 09:09 PM)
I always welcome a lez vib in movies and am usually on the look-out for it. However, I have to say that the thought that there was any such indication in this movie never even occurred to me! What dis occur to me, though, was that Barbara thought of May as a sort of little-sister or child. I got the immediate impression that Stanwyck's character felt maternal towards Monroe's. And, that impression was validated to me in one particular scene that really stood out, in which Monroe's character is talking to Stanwyck's, and Stanwyck's character starts getting philosophical, ending her words-of-wisdom with the phrase "Mama's advice."
Now, I will admit that sometimes, even the mama/papa figures in films can be both parental and romantic in nature, sort of like in the 1956 film, TEA AND SYMPATHY. But, in the case of this film, I just don't think that was what was going on.
Please excuse typos/funny wording; I use speech-recognition that doesn't always recognize! -
hodie — 12 years ago(January 22, 2014 01:54 PM)
I think Monroe's character saw Stanwyck's as a sophisticated woman and admired her for having gotten out of that little town. Stanwyck saw Monroe as a pretty girl whose youth and beauty, like Stanwyck's, were fleeting. I didn't see any lesbian attraction between them at all. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Get me a bromide! And put some gin in it! -
oknar1977 — 10 years ago(November 28, 2015 02:33 AM)
i think you replaced kindness to sexual attraction in this.
barbara returns with broken dreams and homeless to his brother, uncertain whether she would be kicked out in the street. MM accepted her without a thought, stated barbara was tired - showed empathy with her, offered her coffee and helped her unpack.
however i did pick director's homosexual vibe.
MM's husband prancing around without a shirt and a man talking he would be pregnant, enough said. -
mdonln — 9 years ago(May 07, 2016 05:07 PM)
oknar1977 says > however i did pick director's homosexual vibe.
MM's husband prancing around without a shirt and a man talking he would be pregnant, enough said.
It's so sad how difficult it is for some people to follow and understand a movie.- Joe is 'prancing around' without a shirt because they're at the beach. He and Peg had been swimming and just threw on part of their clothes; his pants, her skirt. She was still in her bikini top so it was no big deal that he was bare-chested. I certainly didn't mind.
- When Jerry said, if she (Mae) had gone any longer he would have had the baby himself, he was joking. Joe had been describing how nervous Jerry was during the pregnancy. Someone said he was being sympathetic. This is not at all unusual for a first time father. They are so nervous and anxious, they experience a lot of same symptoms their wife goes through. Joe said Jerry couldn't eat, drink, smoke, etc. He was a wreck but that was in anticipation of being a father; it had nothing to do with him wanting to be pregnant. Everyone in the bar got what he was saying and laughed.
That sequence also showed us how devoted he was to both his wife and child. He cared about and felt things deeply. He wasn't selfish and remote, he was fully invested. When Earl spoke of his wife he did it in a derogatory way. He was never sympathetic and caring; it was all about himself. Mae also was never committed to the marriage or her child. Jerry was also concerned about the baby being too hot but Mae blew it off. That was another attempt to show how differently they cared for the people in their lives.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan.
[Tarzan and his mate]
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mdonln — 9 years ago(May 11, 2016 11:25 AM)
oknar1977 says > ok but in the end we then both agree there is no lesbian subtext whatsoever
LOL I guess I did go off on a tangent. Thanks for pointing it out. Yes, I agree; I detected NO gay subtext!
In my other comment I kind of agreed with the OP but only to point out that the dysfunction of Mae and Earl's relationship mirrors, as I see it, the dysfunction of a gay relationship.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan.
[Tarzan and his mate] -
mdonln — 9 years ago(May 07, 2016 04:20 PM)
goldfinger7967 says > I thought I picked on some underlying lesbian attraction.
I usually get somewhat annoyed with the people who suggest there's a gay subtext in movies that have nothing to do with homosexuality. In this case, however, I'll agree with you; but not in the way you think.
At the end of the movie, Mae sums up the message or theme of the story. As she tells Earl, they are both selfish people who only think about what works for them. As long as what they're doing feels good, they don't care who they hurt. They also don't care how inappropriate, unconventional, and indecent their relationship may be. Marriage is something neither of them took seriously or respected. They used it merely as a way to get more of what they wanted.
Obviously they knew what they were doing was wrong. They covered it up, lied, and kept out of sight but eventually they started growing bolder. They threw it in Jerry's face and expected other people to accept what they were doing as if it were perfectly normal. Jerry, who had always tried to do the right thing even by them was in the wrong because he dared to be angry and disapproved. I guess he was supposed to go along with the plan.
Mae was so twisted in her thinking she was willing to drag an innocent child into an unholy union. Neither Mae nor Earl cared anything about the child's needs; just their own. They wanted to live in sin and would have the child live under the same conditions too.
They knew, or should have known, nothing good could ever come out of their relationship. They were in it for the sex; being together felt good for the moment and meant they didn't have to answer for their behavior. They may have called what they had 'love' but neither of them knew the meaning of the word. They had only ever had other inappropriate and doomed relationships; always for sex and with other equally troubled and lost souls.
Connect the dots. What does all that sound like to you? Everyone living deviant and unnatural lifestyles have the same things in common. They get to do whatever they want and the rest of us are supposed to pretend all is well. If not, we're the ones with the problem. They even manage to get people who should know better, like Peg, to sympathize with their plight.
What was it she said, 'she has the right to do what she wants to if she's in love'. Where have I heard that one before? Peggy, like a lot of people, don't seem to realize that you compromise your own values when you champion behaviors that go against everything you stand for and claim to believe in. Joe, her fianc, was right to question what kind of marriage they would have if she was willing to defend what Mae was doing.
We cannot have things both ways the way we seem to want them these days. We cannot be for everything under the sun. Like Mae, at some point we have to come to our senses and understand we have to make a choice. When we really stop to consider what we're doing, look past the distractions, all of a sudden, things become crystal clear and we notice all those 'difficult' decisions aren't all that difficult after all.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan.
[Tarzan and his mate]