Did Burt Lancaster shoot?
-
wtl471629 — 19 years ago(February 01, 2007 12:31 PM)
I wonder what would the ending was if Burt had won. I can see if the ending was both being killed the Juaristas still would have got the gold. But if Burt had won he was planning to escape with the gold but I can't see that ending being used since back then justice had to always win out in the end.
I think the ending used was the planned one and the other two were just used to keep others guessing. A ruse (spelling?) so to speak. -
wtl471629 — 18 years ago(April 07, 2007 01:09 PM)
I have had more thought on it since my last post but I still think they had planned on Cooper winning in the end. Still it would have made since if Landcaster won to have him have a change of heart after killing Cooper and have him give the gold to the Juaristas. Of course if both of them died the Juaristas would have won anyway. Still those seem far fetched to me so I think that it was still planned to have the ending the way it was.
-
wtl471629 — 18 years ago(June 11, 2007 12:12 PM)
A fourth ending they could have had would have been both refusing to draw on each other at the shootout and giving the gold to the Juaristas as promised. This would have given us a happy ending. I am sure it wasn't considered because it would have been a big letdown after all that buildup.
-
jrogersdal — 17 years ago(July 19, 2008 10:50 PM)
Lancaster definitely fired. But I know what you mean, there was something fishy about the shootout. They both drew and shot simultaneoulsy, so why did Lancaster miss? It's not like Cooper's shot interrupted his, Lancaster even spun his gun and holstered it afterwards. Then when Cooper approaches and pulls Lancaster's pistol he gives it a hard look and throws it away in disgust, like he was angry that he ended up with some advantage and it wasn't fair to his sense of honor. I wonder if they were implying that something was wrong with Lancaster's pistol?
A puzzle -
Aticusfinch — 17 years ago(August 18, 2008 09:46 AM)
Thank you, Jrogersdal, you just read my mind.
Sadly enough most of the people involved in the making of this movie - Aldrich, Cooper, Lancaster, screenwriters - passed away for some time, so we wont probably ever get to know if there was really something about this or if we are just having to much imagination. -
wtl471629 — 17 years ago(August 19, 2008 09:18 AM)
Good point jr. One wonders because as one remembers in an earlier scene with Maximilian both were fast and expert shots and both fired and should have hit each other. Of course everyone makes a mistake and misses once in a while and this may have been Burt's time to miss. Ernest?
-
-
Bklyn4ever — 17 years ago(August 30, 2008 10:33 AM)
This scene struck me as fishy too.
Burt dies smiling, as if he got what he wanted. He made Cooper shoot him in a "fair" duel instead of just gunning Burt down for the murder of their colleague (the man of color). Burt challenged him to a draw to assuage Cooper's conscience, not because Burt wanted to survive. So I think he threw away the shot and let Cooper cut him down.
But the more I think about it the more I think that this impression was not intended by the script and director; it was the result of Burt Lancaster and his huge ego insisting on getting "the last laugh", or the last grin, as it were. He refused to die like a defeated villain, making the viewer think he had planned it that way. The ambiguity is the result of the clash between Burt's ego and the rest of the people involved in the production, which is evident throughout the movie.
Cooper's reaction is easier to read because it fits in with the intended plot: he gets tearful as he tosses aside Burt's gun because it is a "he who lives by the gun, dies by the gun" moment for him. He basically liked the guy but because Burt resorted to excessive force, getting carried away by his gunslinger lifestyle, Coop had to put a stop to it. -
rogerscorpion — 17 years ago(November 16, 2008 12:45 AM)
YeahI see it as Ben tossed the gun, because he really liked Joe & kept hoping Joe was only pretending to be as bad as he truly was.
Joe really had no loyaltyas exhibited by killing Strodewho was blindly loyal to Joe.
Burt died smiling, because he saw the humor in everything. He gambled & he lost.
Carpe Noctem -
oldblackandwhite — 15 years ago(October 08, 2010 11:12 PM)
Personally, I can't believe the story about the alternate endings being filmed. There can never have been any question Coop's character would win the gunfight. Lancaster's character was an total scumbag with no redeeming characteristics, and he was proud of it. If some actor other than Lancaster had played him, one who usually played villians, say Jack Lambert, you would all recognize this, and wouldn't be carrying on so. He definitely shot his revolver. I don't think Ben (Cooper) actually liked Joe (Lancaster). He just felt sorry for him because he had been raised in such a scummy way that helped turn him into an amoral killer. But each of us is ultimately responsible for his or her own behavior regardless of circumstances.
By the way Woody Stode was not in this movie.
He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good St. Matthew 5:45 -
oldblackandwhite — 15 years ago(October 25, 2010 12:00 AM)
Don't be embarassed, rogerscorpion. We all err. That's why they put erasers on pencils.
If Ben thought Joe was redeemable, he was very stupid. They say the devil is charming.
He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good St. Matthew 5:45 -
Jessica_Rabbit69 — 15 years ago(December 25, 2010 02:32 PM)
"After having shot Lancaster Cooper approaches his already dead body, then takes Lancasters gun in his hand and stares at it for a second. Then stares again at Lancaster with visible emotion. Why?
My guess is that perhaps Lancaster didnt fire his gun at all. In the last second he got remorses because Cooper was giving him the chance he had denied to everybody else before. "
"Lancaster definitely fired. But I know what you mean, there was something fishy about the shootout. They both drew and shot simultaneoulsy, so why did Lancaster miss? "
"I wonder if they were implying that something was wrong with Lancaster's pistol? "
I can't believe nobody has thought about this before. I always assumed Lancaster left his gun empty on purpose. Cooper was the only friend he ever had, he didn't want to shoot him. It was the only "good deed" he ever did in his life. Cooper realizes this when he picks up Lancaster's gun. There is definitively self-loathing in his eyes.
Jessica Rabbit
"I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way."