Lightoller responsible for more deaths than any single crewmember
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chimaera1249 — 14 years ago(March 16, 2012 07:33 AM)
The "blame," if there is any, in my opinion goes to the Board of Trade. Ships had been growing much faster than the regulations and standard practices. With way ships were being operated, it was inevitable that one would eventually have a serious accident with severe consequences.
Titanic
was just the one that drew the short straw. Nearly every ship on the water, and certainly those belonging to the bigger lines operated in the same way, proceed normally until a threat presented itself. Up until the disaster, nothing had. Yes, they had received ice warnings, but that was not unusual, and Smith did take action by leaving standing orders with the bridge and the lookouts to keep a sharp watch for ice. He also left an order with Lightoller to get him immediately if anything "became doubtful." Smith is certainly responsible for what happens on the ship as Captain, but I don't go as far as to blame him for the disaster. Its unfair to put on him the mistakes that every captain did. -
deeveed — 14 years ago(March 19, 2012 08:35 AM)
Perhaps it was better that Smith went down with the ship? I'd think it would have been very interesting to see him on the stand and I'd suggest he'd probably be pilloried by some in the press. I'm not an expert on naval law but I'd think the Captain of a ship is responsible for everybody and everything happening on that ship when he is in command. Really, captains when on the sea are far away from THEIR commanders. They are picked to have excellent judgment in the exercise of their command.
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PoppyTransfusion — 13 years ago(July 08, 2012 10:28 AM)
In the 'making of' doc on the DVD the film's producer, William MacQuitty says that Lightoller misinterpreted the 'women and children first' as only those and that's why the lifeboats were not full. But he doesn't condemn Litgholler rather it shows how communication is never without interpretations that can skew the message and influence events.
I'm a fountain of blood
In the shape of a girl -
arbilab — 13 years ago(August 04, 2012 10:37 PM)
Of course, executive communication must be followed up that it has been interpreted as intended. Perhaps there wasn't time for that. Perhaps Smith went catatonic as in Cameron's version. I dunno, I wasn't born yet, neither were my parents.
It's twue! It's twue!
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luverofmovies — 13 years ago(August 11, 2012 11:52 PM)
I am disappointed to read that some feel Lightholer might be responsible for not saving as many lives as possible. I've always held him in high regard, so want to think the best. However, he was the only senior officer that was able to live through this nightmare, and his account, which may or may not be entirely accurate, due to being employed by the White Star Line, is all we have. I'm sure he wanted to keep the job, so who knows. However, in times of probable death, with a boat partially filled, fill it with anyone you see!!
I am especially annoyed about the ultra rich arrogant Slr/Lady (yes, I know who they probably meant, names available on recounts, pictures, too, maybe many like them, though) leaving with just them, their maids, valets, some staff, and maybe a very few lucky ones in the right place - about 20 or so in all. Many dozens more could have been saved.
Was Bruce Ismay really the coward he has been protrayed in all the movies about this tragedy, or is that fiction? He did manage to get on a boat when "Women and Children First" was the standard of that bygone era. He was the heir to the owners. From a documentary I've seen several times, he did seem to have escaped fairly well during inquiries, but his dignity and reputation were in tatters. -
Miss_Sui_Generis — 13 years ago(August 31, 2012 11:44 PM)
It's true that Sir & Lady You Know Who left the Titanic in a lifeboat with 12 people in it although the capacity was 40. It's also true that Lightoller only allowed men in lifeboats if they were needed to row;those men were more likely to be crew than the older sons or husbands of the women already seated. What redeems Lightoller is that he refused to stop loading lifeboats even after the Captain told him it was every man for himself. He acted as a leader until he and the other survivors were taken aboard the Carpathia the next morning.
Lightoller did a decent job in difficult circumstances.
Send lawyers,guns and money/The beep has hit the fan -
Mr_Blonde3 — 13 years ago(September 10, 2012 10:39 AM)
The blame should certainly not be placed entirely on Lightoller's shoulders. There were a great number of mitigating circumstances that led to the events of that night.
Walter Lord, in his follow up, "The Night Lives On", says that during the lifeboat loading, some of the women in the boats were begging Lightoller to let their husbands in to row. Smith was around at that particular time, and when Lightoller said no, Smith backed him up 100%.
That novel was written in '85, close to 30 years after Lord originally wrote "A Night to Remember", so it's probably a pretty solid guess that the story is correct as he had a lot of time for further research. Based on that comment, and Smith's intervention, why would he change his stance on women and children first? He's under the assumption it's women and children only, and Smith has just backed him up. I would assume, in his shoes, that I was following Smith's orders.
The second thing to take under advisement is that Lightoller only oversaw the lowering of 5 lifeboats on his side of the ship. I must admit, until recently, I was always under the assumption that Murdoch had the starboard side and Lightoller the port side. Apparently, that wasn't the case.
And don't forget, while I'm not blaming him, it was Murdoch who oversaw the lowering of Boat #1, which had 12 people out of a capacity of 40, and of the 12, had 7 crewmen. If we're going to try to accuse Lightoller for additional loss of life for not letting men go, we have to afford the same to Murdoch.
The third factor was a lack of preparation. There were no lifeboat drills during the actual voyage. The one lifeboat drill consisted of a handful of crewmen lowering two lifeboats into the water, and paddling around while the ship was docked. With a full drill, things may have been different. Also, the officers were never informed of A. The actual capacity of each of the boats, or B. The fact that they could even be lowered somewhat overloaded and still have stayed afloat. It's been reported repeatedly that the officers lowering the boats were afraid of overcrowding and fears the davits would cave. Thus they feared to fill them.
And a fourth factor involves speed. I think part of the reason boats were sometimes going down half empty was because of a lack of communication and a fear the ship was going to sink before they could get all the boats lowered. Technically, it did. They had to try and float off the last two collapsibles because they couldn't transport them to the davits soon enough.
And as has been brought up before, The fifth problem involves lack of communication from the bridge. Smith ordered the boats lowered Lightoller started, then Chief Officer Wilde told him not to. He went back to the bridge, again got confirmation to lower from Smith, and started lowering. It's also painfully obvious the officers were under-informed. 4th Officer Boxhall wasn't informed the ship was sinking until 1:15, one hour and 35 minutes after striking the iceberg.
And there's the dreaded 6th factor. Captain Smith didn't issue a general call for evacuation. Partly because, I'm sure, he didn't want a panic, but again, another reason lifeboats weren't going down filled, at the beginning, most definitely, was that no one knew the ship was going to sink, and when faced with the opportunity of a warm ship or a boat in the cold in the middle of the dark ocean, they chose the ship. John Jacob Astor is famously quoted as saying, "We are safer here than in that little boat."
Did Lightoller make some mistakes? Sure. Anyone in his position would have. Captain Smith was a 42-year veteran of the sea, and he made a great many more mistakes than Lightoller. A lot of things that could go wrong did on that particular night. Lightoller certainly shouldn't be blamed more than anyone else, and frankly, I think he did pretty damn well under the circumstances.
I love to love my Lisa. -
melnar1 — 11 years ago(April 07, 2014 11:40 AM)
I think that dubious honor goes not to any Titanic crew member but to the captain of the SS Californian (only a few miles away from the Titanic), who could have helped to save several hundred lives had he not ignored the Titanic's distress calls and rockets.
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TorontoJediMaster — 11 years ago(April 15, 2014 02:24 PM)
Captain Smith certainly seemed to have not acted as he should have during the sinking.
Daniel Allen Butler, in his book
Unsinkable
, described how right after the collision, but before getting the verdict from Andrews, Smith was decisive and take-charge. After Andrews told him that the ship would sink, Smith seemed to have retreated into himself and wasn't on top of things like a good captain should have been -i.e. Lightoller had to come and ask him if he should start sending the boats off rather than Smith coming to Lightoller and telling him to do so, etc.
Butler thought that Smith was psychologically overwhelmed at what was happening. He was aware that -unless some ship got there in time- over half the people on board would die and he was solely responsible. In his whole career, Captain Smith had never had any sort of major incident at sea and now he was facing the biggest disaster ever. Butler thought he was overloaded and more or less shut down.
As a result, his orders were left to interpretation with Murdoch and Lightoller each taking them in a different way.
Lightoller most likely erred in his interpretation of Smith's orders. However, I think he did his best under the circumstances. As well, as he never tries to leave in a boat himself he clearly was ready to go down with the ship himself if it came to that.
Captain Lord, of the
Californian
, was the person who was the real villain of the tragedy. He didn't even bother to wake up his wireless operator and later doctored his ship's log to remove any mention of seeing lights or rockets during the night of April 14th/15th.