The Californian
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valerie_lp — 18 years ago(May 14, 2007 04:04 PM)
Like I said on the other thread, TJM, the Californian situation isn't as easy as history (let alone the movies) make it out to be. Had it attempted a rescue mission, the Californian could easily have sustained fatal damage from ice, injured or killed those in the lifeboats, and simply would not have had capacity to rescue the Titanic's passengers in any case. Transfers at sea are incredibly complicated and dangerous, transfers at sea at night among icebergs even more so. Cap. Lord was under no obligation to endanger his ship or his crewit's the first law of maritime command: take care of your own.
The real question, to me, is why Capt. Smith didn't order the crippled Titanic to steam toward the Californian, which (as we know) they could see not more than 10 miles away. She could have made it, even as damaged as she was.
I am familiar with the record, and am vicariously enjoying the discussions of this subject by people who are better informed than either of us: http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/discus/messages/5666/73559.html?1174189625 -
TorontoJediMaster — 18 years ago(May 14, 2007 07:54 PM)
The reason why Captain Smith didn't order the
Titanic
to steam to the
Californian
is that by the time it was sighted, most of the boilers had already been shut down as they were flooding. What steam pressure was left was being used to keep the lights, pumps and wireless operating. The engines couldn't have been started up again.
As well, steaming forward, with the hull opened at the bow would only have increased the rate of flooding due to the increased flow of water (as the bow is being driven forward). The ship likely would have foundered well before it got there.
The argument about the
Californian
being at risk if it attempted a rescue is a weak argument at best. The
Carpathia
came from further away, through ice, despite the risk. All the
Californian
had to due was traverse down the side of the ice field and she could have reached
Titanic
in time.
Just how would it have injured or killed those in the lifeboats by coming to their rescue? Hmmm. Maybe Captain Lord should have used that as his defence at the inquiries: he didn't come because he was afraid he'd injure the lifeboat occupants with his ship.
There were at least a half-dozen other ship's captains who felt they should attempt some type of rescue, despite the same risks Lord would have faced. The captains of
Baltic
,
Mount Temple
,
Virginian
,
Olympic
, in addition to
Carpathia
, all set immediate course for
Titanic
.
Transfers at sea can be complicated and dangerous. But when it's a life or death situation, one would hope that a captain would be willing to at least try and help. Besides, the sea was absolutely calm and -again- Captain Rostron was able to accomplish the feat.
The argument for the
Californian
not having the capacity to rescue all of
Titanic
's passengers and crew? Again, perhaps Captain Lord should have used that as a defence at the inquiry and waited for a reaction. Yes, he might not have had room on
Californian
for everyone if he was to try and take them on to New York or Boston. However, if he had managed to rescue everyone he could have waited for some of the other ships to arrive. Once there, they could have distributed survivors between various ships for transport back to New York. At the very worst, if weather conditions had made a transfer of people too dangerous, he could have worked out a way to transfer some provisions over and made for New York or Boston in escort with some of the other rescue ships.
The trouble with the arguments for Lord is that Captain Rostron faced most of the same challenges, yet overcame them handily. -
peter-r-odder — 18 years ago(May 15, 2007 08:32 AM)
Isn't a hero someone who endangers his or her own life to rescue someone else?
I read about a theory saying, that there was actually a third vessel between the Titanic and Californian, and that vessel was the one visible from both ships. Or maybe even a fourth. One could also ask, why did they not react?
Also, if the calculated position of the Californian was correct, the two ships should be too far away from eachother to see eachother because of the Earth's curvature. The Californian was also too far away to be able to rescue any more people in time, by the time they saw the rockets anyway. I do not know if that is true.
The rockets sighted from the Californian were, however, most likely the ones from the Titanic.
I agree though, what captain and officer in his right mind would disregard 8 rockets at night on the open sea?
If Evans had ben listening to the wireless just half an hour longer or a little more, he would have heard the distress call, and then they would have stood a chance to rescue more people. -
TorontoJediMaster — 18 years ago(May 15, 2007 09:20 PM)
No, he would have been hailed as a hero for saving 705 people. If a captain is to not attempt to answer a distress call because it's classified as a risk, then why bother sending out distress calls in the first place?
By your logic, Captain Lord should have received a commendation for staying in bed and not bothering to inquire about the distress rockets his ship could definitely see. -
gus00 — 17 years ago(May 29, 2008 07:29 PM)
"Californian being at risk if it attempted a rescue"
".. would it have injured or killed those in the lifeboats"
".. Transfers at sea can be complicated and dangerous"
".. not having the capacity to rescue all of Titanic's passengers and crew"
All moot points because Lords never inquired about what was happening a few miles away so he never had those decisions to make. he chose to ignore the signals because he was either an imbecile or a criminal. In the end he was both.
Gus
"It needs more cow-bell" -
nelliebell-1 — 14 years ago(December 11, 2011 01:05 PM)
Transfers at sea are not so complicated that they can not with resolve be accomplished with the pathos of life eternal for we are God.Nothing in our resolve then or now would qualify as not within our abilities to accomplish even as it were with distinction.I think it was inexcusable conduct with such a dumbfounded inability to know right from wrong that the Californian should of been looked at as a contributing culprit.The Californian exhibited such conduct as to be wilful in its disregard.There conduct was not the only shame such a loss of life represented.The Californians bold indifference and arrogant undertone was enough to warrant charges to be brought.It was a shock when at a time with all survivors aboard the Carpathia that the California inquired as to welfare of the Titanic.That is unacceptable!
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chimaera1249 — 14 years ago(December 12, 2011 12:12 PM)
No, just no.
The
Californian
did nothing to justify charges, in either US or British jurisdictions. They weren't the ones that sideswiped and iceberg and put their ship in jeopardy. Lord was well within his right to not do anything he felt put his own ship and crew at risk (in fact, it could be argued that Rostron should have been disciplined in some way for the danger he did put his ship through to reach
Titanic
; they very nearly hit several icebergs on their way). What really got Lord in trouble in my opinion was his dodginess and refusal to acknowledge what they saw. They should have at least tried to find out what was going on through the wireless, in my opinion. As one of
Californian
's officers said that night, a ship isn't going to fire rockets at night for no reason.
Ship-to-ship transfers actually are very difficult, especially at night with on ship unstable, sinking, and twice the size of the other. It would have taken some very precise maneuvering to get
Californian
in a position to help, if they were even able to reach
Titanic
at all (which was very doubtful). -
nelliebell-1 — 14 years ago(December 12, 2011 02:22 PM)
The Californian was captained by a coward.The wireless operator was so deep in sleep that even with the wires loud with noise, particular mention is when one of the ships officers came to the wireless room and actually turned the reciever on.It was rigged to look like some college prank yet there remained no ambition but to make less of a very real emergency and play. With even flares continously being launched, with even actual distress signals coming from the deck of the Titanic Californian failed with such bastardly indifference to acknowledge the stricken ships "call for help".The conduct of the Californian was inexcusable.
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gus00 — 16 years ago(August 05, 2009 02:47 AM)
Nobody would ever let their ship power down like that in mid-ocean. Loss of power is a sailor's third worst fear after fire and flooding. No power means no control. Your ship would be completely at the mercy of the sea.
Gus
"It needs more cow-bell" -
deeveed — 16 years ago(August 05, 2009 10:27 AM)
You know a recently published book looking into the behavior of those on the Californian described Lord as a "sociopath". Hmmmm, pretty strong. A ship's captain? Sociopathic? I don't know. In his quest to get some closure on the Titanic tragedy and especially the Californian response, I'm wondering how far one can go in noting a diagnosis of the captain like that. Has to be a bit over the top.
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harryrstevens — 17 years ago(January 13, 2009 05:03 PM)
We know what happened in retrospect. At the time the Titanic was an entirely new size of ship which much of the marine industry was unfamilier, incuding her masters. What we're not accounting for is a typical human trait, one that we make a judgement about an ongoing event and then fit observations to our conclusion rather than changing our judgement. The officers of the California made a judgement that the Titanic had stopped because of the ice and were holding a celebration on board. All subsequent observations were interpreted to confirm that initial misjudgement.
Similar misjudgements about significant events have been made. For instance, when the Columbia space shuttle broke up upon reentry over Texas, the engineers refused to accept as credible that foam breaking off parts of the large fuel tank had enough mass to damage the tiles on the space shuttle. They continued to spend considerable time and effort to find other reasons for the breakup. It wasn't until a full test was insisted upon and conducted that the engineers were astonished at the amount of damage a piece of foam could cause. This engineering misjudgement is the principal reason the space shuttles are being retired with an entirely different design replacing them.
Consequently I find it entirely credible that the officers of the California just didn't realize that the Titanic was in trouble. It was inconcievable to them that a ship of the size and advanced design as the Titanic was could get into trouble so they fit their observations to confirm their initial misjudgement. Many new rules of marine safety were adopted because of the Titanic's sinking, incuding monitoring of wireless traffic during the night. -
nelliebell-1 — 14 years ago(December 12, 2011 02:47 PM)
That was not true was it.There was no information that would allow such assumptions to be confirmed.Titanic did more than merely launch flares,there were signals occassioned from the deck of the Titanic as she sank.The wires were so hot with "calls for help" that the indifference shown by the Californian as to the perils of the sea was litterally improper.Why in all the world would any cause seek to justify conduct as exhibited by the Californian.
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gamertrav — 10 years ago(July 08, 2015 03:01 AM)
I know nothing of the protocols used at the time but I've read that the correct distress signal using rockets at that time was to fire them at 1 minute intervals, whereas the Titanic was firing them much less often than that, which supposedly created the confusion.
Stillif a ship is stopped and firing rockets I think that would warrant some kind of action, not just completely ignoring it. I doubt ships would just fire rockets willy-nilly for no reason. -
silvergirl606 — 18 years ago(May 28, 2007 07:43 PM)
Regardless of the risks of attempting a rescue of the Titanic, and regardless even of Rostron's actions, the thing about Lord is that he didn't even TRY. He was told about the rockets, but he wouldn't even make the simple effort of waking up the wireless man to see what was going on. His crew said they saw the rockets and told him of them. The only thing to do in that situation is to at least find out what's going ON.
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rebel60 — 18 years ago(November 27, 2007 11:12 PM)
At the web site "The Great Ocean Liners" : (www.greatoceanliners.net/index2.html) there is an article on the Californian - it's history and its role in the Titanic disaster. Several points are brought up which I find interesting (although I'm still not sure if I buy all of them).
- The rockets used by the Titanic were white. This article states the standard color for distress rockets were red. Is this true? And, if so, did the Titanic carry any? Further, if they did, why weren't they used instead of the white ones.
- The article includes the "Samson" argument; i.e., the ship seen by the Californian was a Norwegian fishing barque. The ship was fishing illegally in the area and left the area (I assume because of the arrival of the Titanic) so as not to be caught. The first mate of the Samson stated on his deathbed that he saw the Titanic nearby. I have been in the desert on a very dark night. Distance and size of objects can be hard to determine. I'm sure it's similar at sea. Even the lookouts on the Titanic didn't see a good-sized iceberg until it was too late.
- Another argument states that the Californian was too far away to be of any help to the Titanic. The ice field would have slowed the ship down too much. This may be true, but, assuming Lord knew the Titanic was going down, it does not excuse him from trying.
- One point has always bothered me - why didn't the Titanic see the Californian Morse signals? And why didn't the Californian see the Titanic signals? I have heard that the Californian log was "doctored" after the fact. Could Lord have changed any references to the Morse signals in order to make it look like his crew tried to signal the "mysterious" other ship?