we, creationists
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Inherit the Wind
inco2007 — 18 years ago(September 08, 2007 06:23 AM)
reading these boards i can see why we, creationists so rarely post here. because we are treated like retards, sub-humans, bigots, cavemen and hypocrites. Just look at the language you use, full of insults, disdainful, mocking and condescendent. Are we supposed to like that?! I know that you think that that's what animals like us deserve, but curious enough we don't like it. We could give you the same treat - I especially used to be a champion at that - but we're not allowed to play this game. So have fun explaining to each other how stupid and pathetic is to be a creationist, you'll get maybe once in a while an agnostic - that's a confused atheist in case you didn't know - daring to counter you but i trust you won't have any troubles straighten him up.
Now, what I came here to say:
You belive that we're so confused, lost and helpless in oceans of "unquestionable, undeniable, cross-checked scientifical proofs" for evolution (this formula and alike were used in the same obsessive manner in the former communist block countries - where i come from - to explain the utter superiority of communism over capitalism) and pray God to make them go away. To you, our pitiful little brains are not capable of understanding the wonderful array of scientifical facts all pointing to Evolution and we're trying desperately to explain them away.
Well, all this is only because you don't read what WE say about us and our beliefs, you only read what OTHERS say. You don't read our sites;to those of you who say you did, have you ever heard of "they will look and not see, listen and not understand"? How long did you read?What did you look for? What we have to say, our ideas, or how wrong we are? I you apply time-and-chance-will-do-it thing on what you read there then of course we're wrong, even God is wrong.
How come so many of you know that evolution is established on scientific facts and when asked about these facts you give answers that would make a savvy evolutionist blush? You want to know why is that? Because you LOVE their version of the story: nobody made Us, We owe nothing to nobody, We can do watever we want, We decide the good, the bad and the truth, We'll have it our way, We'll reign over everything, We'll take control over our genetic code, We'll master the laws of physics so We would reach to the stars, We'll be immortals and finally gods. You love evolution - humanism actually - because essentially says that god position is vacant and is ours to take. Satan wanted to do that before you - to be like God, then Adam, and since then everything's gone mad including the human mind which now can conceive that such a horrendously complex system as human body or brain could appear by chance, given enough time. I think that's God' punishment for your rebellion, he lets you believe such enormities. Of course, now blame Him for that!
If the arguments for evolution are so decisive how come the creation movement is on the rise? In this age with so many more "scientifical evidence" and advances of human knowledge than 50 years ago, shouldn't it be on its way to extinction at much faster pace than decades ago? you don't seem to realize that no matter how incompetent, insignificant or bad joke creation scientists look to you, your high esteemed paleontologists and paleobiologists look a lot worse to us. You're not aware of how encouraged we are by our own investigations of natural phenomena once we stopped buying the if-you-wait-enough-things-will-simply-start-happening thing. Again, that's because you don't read us.
When we say "Evolution IS religion", we're not playing words, we mean it and our children are taught this religion from our taxes too. -
Rangely8723 — 18 years ago(September 10, 2007 06:44 PM)
[]because we are treated like retards, sub-humans, bigots, cavemen and hypocrites. Just look at the language you use, full of insults, disdainful, mocking and condescendent[]
You have forgotten to mention the most important descriptions for creationists: Ignorant, illogic and unscientific; they replace knowledge with beliefs, facts with myths, arguing with preaching, thinking with quoting the bible, and research with speculation.
And regarding your message, I would also add self-pitying, whining and stagy to this list; you really seem to love yourself in the role of modern Christian martyrs, persecuted by evil evolutionists which treat you like cavemen (or even worse: like apemen), don't you?
Citoyens! Vouliez-vous une rvolution sans rvolution? -
inco2007 — 18 years ago(September 12, 2007 03:54 PM)
You have forgotten to mention the most important descriptions for creationists: Ignorant, illogic and unscientific
you quoted me but you didn't READ me. I said "retards" didn't I? That includes ignorant, illogic, unscientific and so much more.
they replace knowledge with beliefs, facts with myths, arguing with preaching, thinking with quoting the bible, and research with speculation.
we think EXACTLY the same thing about you except that we quote the bible while you quote other humans. Oh, and your arguing IS preaching too: just substitute everywhere the word "evolution" with "gods" and you'll get my drift. READ our sites don't just browse them.
self-pitying, whining and stagy
of course my message looks self-pitying in contrast with the strong taste, harsh language that i have to put up with. I should've fight back! spice it up with insults, say it like a real man, right? You're mistaking being humble with self-pitying and whining. Try yourself to be humble once in a while and you won't make the same confusion again.
"stagy" - don't know what that means but i take it as a compliment.
PS
The only real atheist I know is God Himself. The self-called atheists don't have one god like us they have two: Time and Chance. Like us, they have no idea how Time and Chance created the first living organism - of course they have a bunch of fancy names for it like "protocell" "coacervates" "protoplasma" that are supposed to tell us they know what those things were. If the DASHED LINES interwoven with ARTIST DRAWINGS in biology books is science to them, to me is how they BELIEVE the two gods created life on earth.Luckily for them these 2 gods don't ask anything in return. How convenient! -
charliechan007 — 18 years ago(September 22, 2007 09:19 AM)
You have no idea what kind of moral life non-believers have; your simple-minded implication that they have no sense of duty or moral perspective only shows how superficial your perspective is.
You know, if someone believes your ideas are stupid, it's really none of you business. If you believe you're right, if you are secure in your opinion, isn't that enough for you? -
inco2007 — 18 years ago(September 24, 2007 04:55 PM)
You have no idea what kind of moral life non-believers have; your simple-minded implication that they have no sense of duty or moral perspective only shows how superficial your perspective is.
i'm stunned. And what exactly did i say about your moral life? non-believers morals were the last thing on my mind here and they are not my problem anyway (a fellow christian's are). If you knew what means to be a christian you'd know that we don't care about the non-christians' morality - it's irrelevant. Only fellow christians count here. And since you bring this about, you should've known that no matter how high your morals are they are NEVER high enough for the One who will judge us all. You cannot justify BY YOURSELF before Him, not even if you saved the mankind from a nuclear war. If you sinned once - just once your entire life - you're a sinner just the same like if you killed just one single person you become a murderer don't need to kill a thousand for that. Stop using Hollywood shows to understand christians.
You know, if someone believes your ideas are stupid, it's really none of you business. If you believe you're right, if you are secure in your opinion, isn't that enough for you?
Sorry,can't do that. democracy exists because people whose ideas were considered stupid and dangerous decided that what others think IS their business. -
charliechan007 — 18 years ago(October 01, 2007 02:13 PM)
Actually, this is what you said:
"their version of the story: nobody made Us, We owe nothing to nobody, We can do watever we want, We decide the good, the bad and the truth, We'll have it our way . . . "
If that is not an indictment of the moral beliefs of people who think the scientific method makes sense, then I don't know what you "are" saying. Aside from anything else, you are bearing false witness when you make such a blanket statement on so many people. Also, this is not about "my" moral life, it's about all the people you are maligning. For your information, most Christians understand and accept the science behind human evolution. If you are not one of them, then wonderful, but nobody really cares. -
Rangely8723 — 18 years ago(September 25, 2007 06:24 AM)
we think EXACTLY the same thing about you
But what you think is wrong, that's the difference. You always make statements without presenting any evidence (I mean evidence by logic/scientific definition); you can think whatever you want, but this doesn't automatically mean that it's true.
while you quote other humans
No, I quote facts which are scientific (=logic and reproducible) facts. They were not invented by humans, only discovered.
Oh, and your arguing IS preaching too
Because it wasn't part of a discussion about evolution (or another scientific topic) itself. This message was my personal reply to yours. What I mean is your preaching when you are discussing the particular aspects of evolution.
BTW, I'm not necessarily an atheist. But if an almighty God does exist, I'm sure he would use the rules of logic and the natural laws he originally has initiated in his universe, and wouldn't suddenly change to irrationality and illogic like creationsts impute to him.
In other words: If God really would have created the life the way creationists preach, it would be a dumb and irrational God who works with an imperfect idea; a God who permanently needs to intervene, because the life he has created doesn't work. So he needs to remove the dinosaurs, mammoths, neanderthals and thousands of other species, and even needs the help of humans (Noah) to save the others. It also means that dinosaurs and all other extincted lifeforms weren't worth to exist, they only were created by mistake (God's mistake!), because otherwise why should God remove them?
Stupid, isn't it? What a loser God must be according to you. When it comes to biological life he suddenly isn't any longer able to use the principles he once has set up for this world, the principles on which all other things in the nature are based.
Now take a look at evolution: It's a logic system that respects all the principles of natural laws and it works without the need of an intervention by God. All lifeforms that ever existed had their time on this planet and a right to exist. Dinosaurs weren't a mistake - at the time they existed they were perfect for this world, but lifeforms change (evolute) just as their environment does change.
However, please answer me just one thing:
Let's assume that God, nevertheless, has created the world exactly the way creationists say, and evolution is merely a fantasy of some humans. How comes it, that humans (a creation by God, according to you) are able to invent a much more rational and logic system for biological life (=evolution) than God himself?
(I asked this question several times and never got a reply from creationists, at least not a serious one.
)
Citoyens! Vouliez-vous une rvolution sans rvolution? -
theonering1207 — 18 years ago(January 10, 2008 07:28 AM)
You have absolutely
No right
to say that what I beleive is wrong? were you there at the beginning? science is the exploration of the unexplained. that is why the
theory
of evolution even exists! the big bang theory is hardly explained, what with as many loopholes as it has. let me ask you something if something that impractical (try 1 in several googleplexes) could be submitted as scientific fact? and what are you talking about we created a much more rational and logical system for biological life?
if
God did create our race, isn't reasonable to assume that he also created the brain from which these
theories
flow out of? therefore isn't reasonable to assume that he gave us the ability to conceive the theory of evolution? but to awnser your question, have you ever thought about whether you actually breath air? no, you assume you do because a scientist says so, you can't see it! therefore you are having faith theat the air is there. it is the same with having faith in God. and personally, I would rather think I was created than something that is completely random. -
Rangely8723 — 18 years ago(January 19, 2008 07:24 PM)
You have absolutely
No right
to say that what I beleive is wrong?
Sure I have. That's the basic idea of a discussion.
were you there at the beginning?
Were you?
science is the exploration of the unexplained. that is why the theory of evolution even exists!
Science is much more, and evolution is not any longer a theory, it is a scientific model.
the big bang theory is hardly explained, what with as many loopholes as it has. let me ask you something if something that impractical (try 1 in several googleplexes) could be submitted as scientific fact?
What has the big bang theory to do with evolution? That's something completely different.
and what are you talking about we created a much more rational and logical system for biological life? if God did create our race, isn't reasonable to assume that he also created the brain from which these theories flow out of? therefore isn't reasonable to assume that he gave us the ability to conceive the theory of evolution? but to awnser your question, have you ever thought about whether you actually breath air?
I said that evolution is superior to creation, because it needs no further intervention from a creator after being initiated (for all points, see my previous messages). Now, if there is a God, why would he prefer the imperfect system of creation to the superior system of evolution? This makes no sense, except you assume that God had no clue. In this case, humans would have developed a superior way to establish life on Earth than God. That would mean that humans (Darwin and other scientists) are smarter than God. In simple words: If you believe in creation, you also believe that God is less intelligent than the humans he had created (= he is an idiot)
Yes I have thought about why I breath air. And I know why I breath air.
no, you assume you do because a scientist says so, you can't see it! therefore you are having faith theat the air is there. it is the same with having faith in God.
No, I do not have the
faith
that there's air because a scientist says so, I
know
that there is air, because there's
evidence
that there is. Ergo, it is
not
the same as having faith in God, because there is
no evidence
for the existence of God.
and personally, I would rather think I was created than something that is completely random
I'll not stop you (or anyone else) from believing whatever you want, if that's sufficient for you. But personally, I prefer knowledge to belief.
Evolution doesn't mean that species exist randomly, actually it is just the opposite. Every species has evolved regarding the current environment and has an exact place in the nature.
Citoyens! Vouliez-vous une rvolution sans rvolution? -
Maggot_22 — 18 years ago(October 03, 2007 07:51 AM)
we think EXACTLY the same thing about you except that we quote the bible while you quote other humans.
Quoting the Bible is quoting other humans! It was written by humans, it was EDITED by humans and it has nothing directly to do with God except that when it was first written by humans, a long time after the things actually happened, they decided to say that it was the "word of God".
Ignorance is bliss, but when your ignorance beep with my life it's a problem -
cwente2 — 18 years ago(October 03, 2007 03:26 PM)
A terribly cynical view. It behooves us to remember that many who quote the Bible do so with the conviction that it is the "revealed" word of God. That is to say, God told the "humans" what to write. I doubt there are many who believe that God actually took pen in hand, so to speak. BTW, the Bible is often quoted for reasons other than inerrancy. No matter what your beliefs, there's a lot of wisdom there. No? . . .
-
Maggot_22 — 18 years ago(October 05, 2007 08:22 AM)
exactly NO!!! It's not a cynical view, it's a realistic view. The Bible now is very different from the first written copy. It has been edited, translated and basically made a shell of what it originally was. Using it for any other reason than to see one point of view in the millions of views of life, is quite simply foolish.
I always enjoy the fact that scientists and religious people can rationally discuss and challenge some issues of science but if they attempt to do the same with religion, there will be none of that.
Little brother needs to give his retarded Big brother a beating -
LionHearted99 — 18 years ago(October 17, 2007 04:54 PM)
"The self-called atheists don't have one god like us they have two: Time and Chance."
That tells me you have no idea what atheism is and even less about what evolution is. Atheism is a lack of beliefno belief in a God of any kind. There is nothing to rail against because there is no God and hence, nothing to rail againstexcept the insidious and tiring rants of the believers.
"Like us, they have no idea how Time and Chance created the first living organism"
Actually, scientists do have plausible ideas as to how life began on this planet. There is evidence to suggest that life arose from self replicating, pre-cell ingredientsthe primordial soup, if you will. At very least scientists have some realistic ideas as to how life began here. All you believers have is wishful thinking, mythologies and that great work of fiction called the Bible.
As far as convenience goesreligion (up to now) has enjoyed the immunity from having to prove it's stance. Seems we ask for evidence for all other realms of life, law, economics, etcbut religionlargely because they say sois somehow exempt from having to account for itself. Well I don't for one minute buy that nonsense. -
Nokitah — 18 years ago(January 27, 2008 02:12 AM)
you said: "you quoted me but you didn't READ me. I said "retards" didn't I? That includes ignorant, illogic, unscientific and so much more."
now i beg to differ! i know a lot of intelligent, scientific and logic retards! to me being a retard doesn't mean you're ignorant, it means you're too stupid to admit you might be wrong about something. i mean, there are a lot of retard evolutionists!
anyway, my best friend is a creationist. she's not retarded nor stupid. she's just ignorant. i'm ignorant! and ignorance means to not know the truth and, instead, believe whatever anyone feeds you. nobody can say with an 100% certainty HOW THE beep THE EARTH WAS "BORN"! i'm neither a creationist (for the love of god - and hey i don't deny his existence! but, again, i can't say he does exist!) or an evolutionist. one thing is for sure (for me at least), evolution makes a lot more sense than creation! even if it's not the truth!
what i absolutely hate about creationists and evolutionists (and everyone with such a deep belief in something that they allow themselves to be blinded, denying the truth) is their fanatism! i hate fundamentalism!
why can't religious people and non-religious people GET ALONG??? respect your fellow man, isn't that one of the most important principles of the biblie?
and about the insults, you're definitely no one to talk.
Die Religion ist das Opium des Volkes! -
MovieKnut — 14 years ago(March 03, 2012 10:21 AM)
we quote the bible while you quote other humans
When you quote the bible you quote other humans. The bible is a product of it's time. Written by men, fashioned by beliefs and prejudices of the era.
You can't palm off a second-rater on me. You gotta remember I was in the pink! -
charliechan007 — 18 years ago(September 14, 2007 11:55 AM)
"(this formula and alike were used in the same obsessive manner in the former communist block countries - where i come from - to explain the utter superiority of communism over capitalism)" ??
Well, it is also the same formula that allows us to read DNA, to go to the moon, and to know that the earth revolves around the sun. It may be that people have said unkind things to you, and that is not good, but it also does not strengthen your argument for "creationism;" it's a seperate issue. -
Gorship — 18 years ago(September 23, 2007 12:17 PM)
Well, it is also the same formula that allows us to read DNA, to go to the moon, and to know that the earth revolves around the sun.
I fail to see how evolution helps us read DNA and go to the Moon and know that the earth revolves around the sun.
there is science in creation and there is science in evolution, its about your starting assumption, if you are a creationist you believe in the beginning god, if you are a evolutionist you believe in the beginning..dirt..or nothing exploded (the big bang, which doesn't prove anything a big bang would make a big mess not a complete universe)
just to show that your belief system doesn't effect how you do science (yes evolution is a belief system, The MRI machine was founded by a creationist.
now I read that people say that creationist's have no proof this is a very false statement and very misleading, we ALL have the same evidence no matter what you think or believe, the question is what is your starting assumption. we look at the earth, lets talk about the rock layers, the humanist or evolutionist view says, "wow look at what time did!", and creationists say "well if time did that, why do we have all these trees going through the layers.. or why isn't there any showing of erosion between the layers..they look all smacked together, I believe that a Flood is a much better explanation"
To any creationist reading this, don't get frustrated when someone doesn't hear your position and instead just gets mad at you, remember jesus said.
John 15:18
"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first."
Also if when you are showing your position you feel nervous that perhaps you are not going to be heard and start to doubt yourself. Remember..
Numbers 14:11
" The LORD said to Moses, "How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the miraculous signs I have performed among them? 12 I will strike them down with a plague and destroy them, but I will make you into a nation greater and stronger than they." "
It matters that you are trying!
As for the evolutionists reading this, we creationists are sorry that you feel like we are "shoving it down your throats", but if you saw the most beautiful thing, something that totally touched you, ACTUALLY healed you (yes I have seen healings and even heard him speak to me.) You would want to share it, you would want to save the world from the judgment to come, I challenge you to just open your hearts and search within yourself, if you really believe you do not have a soul, and when you die thats it, you don't even see black its just over, and your just worm food, so you better get drunk and high all you can because its gonna end soon. Evolution is a theory its not fact, it stands up in theory but because we cant prove it, we have no way to reproduce it, it is not a fact, we cannot watch a fish turn into a crocodile, we see small fish and big fish but thats no evolution in the sense of molecules to man.
I will end with I hope and Pray that you will one day see his glory.
In kindness and love
for his Truth and Name
Gorship -
charliechan007 — 18 years ago(October 01, 2007 02:00 PM)
The formula is the scientific method, which is "not" in operation in "creationism."
and why do you assume people who beleive the science of evolution are "not" Christians? Most Christians understand the science behind it to be true. You're creating a false dichotomy.