How come Psycho fans don't hate The Apartment?
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Robbmonster — 9 years ago(October 16, 2016 08:08 AM)
Rarely before have I ever seen such massive, grossly uninformed generalizations.
If people DO hate them based on the pattern I definitely see there, it's purely because of their own arrogance and belief their opinion is the only one that could possibly be 'correct'.
If people think winning Oscars somehow makes a film better or worse than it already is, well, nothing I say will change that.
Or part of it could simply be that all those pairing are so different to each other that it's like arguing which is better - McDonalds or Pizza Hut, trying to compare 2 things that have no right being compared in the first place. I mean who would seriously compare Apocalypse Now to Kramer vs Kramer??? I can scarcely think of two films that are more different to each other. The only - I repeat - ONLY reason they get compared is because one won a Best Picture Oscar, and many people - those mentioned before who think their own opinion is the 'correct' one - believe it should have been Apocalypse Now. Some people like human dramas with character development, some people like vague 'epics' with lots of pretty things to look at. No problem, but comparing the two is silly.
And the same could be said for any of those duos you listed.
Some people prefer conventional films with stories, plots, character development and resolutions, some people like stuff that is more 'edgy'. Neither is any better or worse than they other, just different. Sadly there is no scientific formula to divine what makes one film better than another. It's all individual.
Never defend crap with 'It's just a movie'
http://www.youtube.com/user/BigGreenProds -
ecarle — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 02:06 PM)
Psycho and The APartment don't fit into these pairs. Both films were considered very cutting edge in 1960 and appealed to a lot of the same audience.
I think that is very true. Hitchocck and Wilder were both, in very different ways, interested in pushing the Hays Code envelope, and I think they saw the bellweather year of 1960 as the year in which to do it.
For his part, Wilder said he had the basic idea for "The Apartment" around 1950, after he had seen "Brief Encounter" (1948? 1949?) and decided he wanted to do a movie about "the guy who gets into the warm sheets where the lovers just were."
But, said Wilder, he knew he could not make that movie in 1950. So he bided his time, worked on other projects in the fifties, and sensed that the movies were changing in the late 50's. His cross-dressing and very sexual "Some Like It Hot" came first in 1959, and The Apartment was good to go a year later.
Hitchcock was watching big budget, punches-pulling Hollywood get undercut by foreign shockers like Diabolique and cheapie horror movies from William Castle and Roger Corman. I'd say Hitchcock saw the breakthrough as being in how violence could be presented for ever more blood-thirsty American audiences especially teenage audiences. When "Psycho" was published in 1959, he had his vehicle. And screenwriter Joe Stefano gave Psycho its "French movie sex scene"(the opening.) -
Seto012 — 9 years ago(November 10, 2016 03:56 AM)
I think that if Psycho had been nominated the fans would have more of a beef with Apartment.
I'll use myself as an example. I am a massive fan of the original Star Wars movies. In 1977 Annie Hall won best picture and Star Wars was only nominated, and I've kinda always had a grudge against Annie Hall since. The Academy is basically saying "we acknowledge both films are great, but Hall is undoubtably better." This riles me up a bit, because I disagree wholeheartedly.
Now three years later, Empire Strikes Back comes along, and it isn't even nominated for anything! Completely ignored by the oscars. Likely it was all political, (Lucas was at war with the directors guild). So that time around my beef is squarely at the academy. They are basically saying "Empire doesn't even deserve consideration". Which again riles me up. So instead of merely comparing it to another film (ala Star Wars vs Annie Hall), Empire needs to be defended as being a good film in its own right.
I reckon same thing goes for Psycho fans. They simply can't believe Psycho wasn't even recognised. -
ecarle — 9 years ago(November 11, 2016 09:52 AM)
I think that if Psycho had been nominated the fans would have more of a beef with Apartment.
Or perhaps, less of a beef. At least when a movie is nominated, the Academy acknowledges it as ONE of the best of the year.
Eventually, Oscar got with the program and at least nominated thrillers for Best Picture: The Exorcist in 1973, Jaws in 1975. Arguably, The Towering Inferno in 1974. Raiders of the Lost Ark got a Best Picture nomination in 1981..though its sequels did not.
But that took some younger voters than were available in 1960 when Psycho came out.
For research projects, I've read a lot of 1960 entertainment columns and Psycho was certainly written aboutthough nowhere near the massive press such a film would get today. Anthony Perkins gave that famous interview where he said he thought that Janet Leigh AND he would be nominated. Hedda Hopper wrote "Outrage if Hitchcock doesn't get the Oscar for Psycho."
Well, as it turned out, the Academy voters just weren't impressed. They knew Psycho was a megahit, but they had no respect for it. It was just a little horror movie, and (wrote some critics) rather beneath Hitchcock and the kind of films that were SUPPOSED to get Oscars.
Had Psycho come out 15 years later, I'm sure it would have gotten a lot of nominations. But I doubt if it would have gotten any wins.
It took until 1991 and a weak crop of competitors for a thriller to sweep the Oscars. Silence of the Lambs. (One year after Kathy BATES won the Best Actress Oscar for the psycho in "Misery.")
I'll use myself as an example. I am a massive fan of the original Star Wars movies. In 1977 Annie Hall won best picture and Star Wars was only nominated, and I've kinda always had a grudge against Annie Hall since. The Academy is basically saying "we acknowledge both films are great, but Hall is undoubtably better." This riles me up a bit, because I disagree wholeheartedly.
As did a number of critics and "young writers on film" IN 1977. To add insult to injury, Woody Allen famously didn't even show up for the Oscars to get his Picture/Director Oscarshe played clarinet with a Jazz Band in a New York club that night.
The debate in that 1977 year was probably no different than Psycho would have been in in 1960 had it gotten a Best Picture nom: one movie(Psycho, Star Wars) was a "mere genre movie aimed primarily at teenagers", and the other (Annie HallThe Apartment) took up "adult concerns."
But what was pointed out about Star Wars in 1977 as could be said of Psycho as well is that a TYPICALLY cheapjack and sometimes kid-based genre had been used to create great auteuristic art that adults could enjoy , too and to take the movies to a new level of accomplishment.
That said, I think that Psycho IS more adult than Star Warscertainly more savage and "adult-oriented" for 1960, with, I'd argue a somewhat better written group of characters. (Luke and Han and Leia have some pretty corny lines..written that way on purpose, though.)
I would also like to say that some articles about Star Wars said "it is the biggest nation-wide audience movie since Psycho." Not since The Exorcist(which was too sickening for wide-spread enjoyment. Not since Jaws(which, in the years after it came out, always seemed a little LESS than it seemed on release.)
Now three years later, Empire Strikes Back comes along, and it isn't even nominated for anything! Completely ignored by the oscars. Likely it was all political, (Lucas was at war with the directors guild). So that time around my beef is squarely at the academy. They are basically saying "Empire doesn't even deserve consideration". Which again riles me up. So instead of merely comparing it to another film (ala Star Wars vs Annie Hall), Empire needs to be defended as being a good film in its own right.
Ironically, I saw "The Empire Strikes Back" AT the Motion Picture Academy theater. And, three years after I saw "Star Wars" on the Fox lot with a theater full of cheering, yelling, applauding fans"The Empire Strikes Back" got NO applause from the jaded Academy members at all. Total silence. I remember thinking: "They're jealous. And hey, most of them are old guys."
Time, critical writings, and "Best Movie Lists" have given "The Empire Strikes Back" the nod as the best of the Star Wars movies the "deep one," the "Godfather II," and it has the great Psycho-ish twist("I AM your father.") Me, I think it is a good film, but a rather unfinished one its the "middle part of the story" starting late and ending without a real ending. I much prefer the surprise and uplift and excitment of the original "Star Wars" to "Empire." Stillmine is a minority report.
In any event, the Academy couldn't see its way clear to nominate a sequel to Star Wars..even as it had done so for Godfather II. But that one had "art film" pretensions, "period epic" production values and a meaningful script.
And I like Godfather I (ahem"The Godfather") better than II.
I reckon same thing goes for Psycho fans. They simply -
CalibMcBolts — 9 years ago(November 16, 2016 01:37 PM)
Why would anyone hate The Apartment if they love Psycho, people who watch Psycho are clearly the more diehard film mans, so they would easily also love The Apartment. Both are masterpieces and either film couldve won Best Picture and Best Director in my eyes, and i wouldve been happy.
Psycho is #9 on my favorite films of all time list, and The Apartment is #11. Both are flawless masterpieces. No reason for anyone to hate either of them
Favorite films of all time list
http://www.imdb.com/list/ls031708001 -
JJdaPK — 9 years ago(January 30, 2017 08:05 AM)
A few years ago, I was mad that Psycho lost to the Apartment until I actually saw the Apartment and discovered what a fantastic movie it is.
I like Psycho better, but the Apartment is still one of the better "Best Picture" winners and it's hard to get upset about it winning. I love both movies.
Same thing with "Rear Window" losing to "On the Waterfront" or "North By Northwest" losing to "Ben Hur." I don't think they lost to better movies, but they lost to pretty damn good movies!
The only Hitchcock snub that really frustrates me is Vertigo not winning (or being nominated) Best Picture, and losing to Gigi. -
ecarle — 9 years ago(February 02, 2017 08:52 PM)
agreed on all points, but there is irony here:
Neither Rear Window nor Vertigo nor North by Northwest nor Psycho even got a Best Picture NOMINATION. So On the Waterfront, Gigi, Ben-Hur, and The Apartment had no competition from Hitchcock on the Best Picture front.
What Hitchcock WAS nominated for but for Rear Window and Psycho only of the group above was Best Director.
And he lost both times. To the director of the Best Picture.