A Gay Movie?
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gwriter4 — 19 years ago(October 12, 2006 01:11 PM)
Oh, Brother! You believe your own thinking. What projection! The director and star have stated their intent. But, NO, you THINK you know better. Others picked up on your slant, too, I seemore projection. There are two realities, only one is real; the one that is NOT real THINKS it is. Get a life, buddy!
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Jonesh54 — 19 years ago(October 21, 2006 10:05 AM)
Thanks 'gwriter4', I have a good life. As to Tony Curtis, I'm a little hesitant to trust his recent opinions. He seems to go 'how the wind blows'. If he DID think that "The Outsider", had the subtext, I doubt that he'd admit it. Curtis and Don Murray were quoted for years as having "despised Marilyn Monroe". Now aging and seeing that Marilyn = $$$$, they "loved" her. Tony now says he had an affair with MM and does paintings of her. If the gay 'Advocate' magazine were to interview Tony Curtis about "The Outsider", trust me, it would suddenly be a gay movie. He will see which way the 'wind is blowing'. Evidently a lot of people did/do think the subtext IS there or Curtis and Delbert Mann wouldn't have been asked about it. I am a 'moderate' who voted twice for Ronald Reagan. I'm almost a 'Log Cabin Republican'. I hate it when gays 'read' gayness into History and into movies. If I have been guilty of this, I apologize. I really just wanted to know what other people
thought, especially since the film's 1962 reviews DID mention the alleged
SUBTEXT. I accept Delbert Mann's words as the 'reality'. I say 'uncle'. -
Jonesh54 — 19 years ago(October 27, 2006 11:52 AM)
Hi again, 'gwriter4'. No I'm not taking back my 'uncle'; I give up! But just to be EXACT: 'Akime152' said that Tony Curtis said that there was nothing 'un-natural' in the men's relationship. That is to say Ira and Sorenson had no homo-erotic 'thing' going on between them. Please note that the director Delbert Mann did NOT answer the question. To reiterate, I don't particularly trust Mr. Curtis' honesty. Despite what you think, 'buddy', the gay Subtext
issue in "The Outsider" remains unresolved. Personally, I'm bored with this and will let someone younger and 'gayer' take up the topic. Thanx. -
gbhalleberry — 19 years ago(October 16, 2006 07:25 PM)
As someone who is involved in graduate gender studies, I was surprised to learn about the 'berdache' in native american culture also. (From all that I have read, they were quite accepting.) Once again, our earliest countrymen were heads above the late arriving Europeans.
Learning this made me respect their culture all the more! -
mikeinokus — 19 years ago(October 22, 2006 10:15 AM)
I can only speak for myself, but if I did find out for a fact that Ira Hayes was gay, it would make him no less of a hero in my opinion, so don't worry about pooping on anybody's patriotic parade. I don't however think that is the case here. Ira Hayes had extreme survivor guilt, which led to his downfall. He even said that he did not consider himself a hero, but that the heros were the guys who didn't come back.
That's how I saw this movie, and what I took away from reading his biography, but I'm always interested in different opinions. -
grimace_53 — 19 years ago(November 01, 2006 11:43 AM)
Personally as a Native American I think the idea of speculating that Ira Hayes was "gay" is just another mark of disrespect and a put down of Native Americans. Is anyone of you aware that although Native Americans in World War I were not yet "American Citizens" they were in the highest % of ethnic groups (including "whites") that joined military service? Also until after World War II they ( the Native Americans) were not even allowed to vote!!!! Also regarding the close relationships and traumas experienced by soldiers, they developed close friendships with their buddies because they had to trust each other to " guard their backs" so to speak. The trauma experienced by soldiers has been a major epidemic of every war. I have known many survivors who have felt extreme guilt for surviving when many of their buddies didn't. They resorted to drink and drugs to help them cope!!!!!!!
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ducdebrabant — 19 years ago(February 15, 2007 01:21 PM)
Personally as a Native American I think the idea of speculating that Ira Hayes was "gay" is just another mark of disrespect and a put down of Native Americans.
As a gay man, I resent that remark.
You didn't suffer as much as black people so stop acting special. -
prescon — 19 years ago(February 06, 2007 01:59 PM)
First of all, I assure you, Ira Hayes was not gay. It's the sense of brotherhood which is often found common in combat. There is no gay subtext to that. It's just them relying on one another for survival and Ira treated him as a brother.
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gginlasvegas — 19 years ago(March 09, 2007 02:44 PM)
It is apparent that most of the writers here have not studied the history of World War II or have had contact with veterans of that conflict who are willing to talk about their wartime experiences. Did homosexuals serve in the military during World War II? Of course. Do we know of any glaring instances where their sexual orientation brought about a battle defeat for the USA? No.
When your life is on the line and the soldier standing next to you is the most important person in your life in the moment, I think you would care little about his sexual preference. The bottom line would be: Is this guy going to warn me so I can dodge a bullet? Or even more: Is he willing to jump on a grenade for save me and the other men? I am certain that a lot of "gay" soldiers were involved in heroic deeds in World War II.
I have seen this film repeatedly and I didn't take the bond of brotherhood between the characters to be sexual in any respect. Of course, you can READ whatever you want into a scene or a relationship that is depicted in a film. -
ducdebrabant — 19 years ago(February 15, 2007 01:17 PM)
It's almost unavoidable, since Franciscus's first interaction with Hayes, he's in a bathing suit, and ordered to teach Hayes to swim. Franciscus is so beautiful that even the most heterosexual man has to react to seeing him onscreen, semi-nude, teaching another beautiful man to blow bubbles under the water. What's more, he's unpopular with the officers, as is Hayes. They're both outcasts. And Franciscus's kindness is the only tenderness Hayes seems to receive from anybody. I don't think a gay subtext is necessarily intentional, but reading it that way is definitely possible.
You didn't suffer as much as black people so stop acting special. -
schlob77 — 18 years ago(November 03, 2007 12:02 PM)
Spoken like some moron teenager who has NEVER been in combat, NEVER exeperience pure terrors and formed bonds with brother soilders. Doesn'tr make them gay, doesn't mean they have sex wtih each other.
This movie is weak, very misleading and makes Hayes look ridiculous. Read the books, understand the real Hayes, not judge him by this biased garbage.