How do they convince her to work for them?
-
EllisFowler — 12 years ago(July 20, 2013 02:24 PM)
She was a political animal and Moscow was her road to world domination, i.e. the means to an end. She held no true political convictions of any kind, although she was undoubtedly a card-carrying Party member.
-
foster1234 — 12 years ago(July 24, 2013 11:06 AM)
She explains her connection to the Russians just before Ray goes out and kills his girlfriends father.
She explained that after Ray shot the presidential nominee Johnny her husband would be the nominee, and winner of the election, then they would throw off the commies and take over as she would be the true power, the husband being her puppet
So she wasn't a commie but more right wing than say Ghengis Kahn
You don't have to stand tall, but you have to stand up! -
EllisFowler — 12 years ago(August 05, 2013 01:32 PM)
Oh, so THAT's what Genghis Khan was (I assume we're talking about the same guy). Gee, thanks for enlightening me.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/14940/who-was-the-most-rightwing -man-in-history/ -
-
first-things-first — 12 years ago(July 27, 2013 05:59 AM)
I am reading the book now, and here our my thoughts before finishing the book, spoilers:
All governments spy, read about everyone. Mrs. Iselin made sure her exploits were made public, and anyone could glean that she was power hungry, self serving, and could be manipulated to satisfy both traits. She would have been a better killer than to brainwash he son.
I will update when I finish the book.
Update:
Mrs. Iselin was sexually abused by her father as a child, and received a severe beating by her brother for abusing the family pet. The pet wouldn't obey so she drove a nail throw it's paw to teach him to remain still after her command. Both are signs of an abused intelligence. Seeking to protect and derive that only it's thoughts are correct. Because to believe the other would identify the horrible abuse she received as a child from family.
She was attracted to power and wanted to use it on those that she felt superior.
Not finished with the book, but I hoped this adds to enlightenment to Mrs. Iselin.
I finished the book, and I wonder if the abuse by her father led her to want to punish those who acted like him. Communists would be very different from what she would have expected to want. In the book, it emphasized that she wanted to dominant Americans, make us see what was wrong with us and fix it. Like most damaged people, we never see what's wrong with us, only others.
"as long as people can change, the world can change" -
hodie — 12 years ago(January 29, 2014 06:02 PM)
In the book, I seem to recall she belonged to both Communist-sympathizer and anti-Communist groups as well as every other influential group she could join, left, right and center. She was greedy for power, and she didn't care where she got it from.
Get me a bromide! And put some gin in it! -
CovertThunder — 10 years ago(March 20, 2016 05:51 PM)
Mrs. Iselin was power hungry, and someone working for the Communists (probably a KGB agent, although the cook may have been a Red Chinese spy) found her and realized she had the right connections for their plot. Not only that, but being a megalomaniac meant that the Communists could manipulate her as they saw fit.
The Communists then realize that her son is serving in Korea, and find that not only would that provide an ideal place to abduct someone but also provide the perfect cover story to help boost the subject's later political career.
Of course, Mrs. Iselin is insane and planned on turning against the Communists for selecting her son to be the "Manchurian Candidate" but I imagine all it took was a few Communist agents in the U.S. looking for that one political figure with the right connections and mental imbalances, and made her an offer she couldn't refuse (more power).
Can't be too careful with all those weirdos running around. -
Wakanohana — 9 years ago(July 24, 2016 09:54 PM)
I think you are right, that Mrs Iselin is angry because her friends in Moscow picked her son to be the assassin she requested.
But if there was any doubt which side she was on, it came when she referred to the speech that Johnny would give as he cradled in his arms the dead presidential nominee. She said it was a great speech, every word perfectly crafted in Moscow.
If I ever read the book, it would have been decades ago; so I don't know whether she approached the Russians or they approached her. But their arrangement was mutually beneficial. -
ObscureAuteur — 9 years ago(April 22, 2016 05:52 PM)
I do not see any information or back story about Mrs. Iselin's ideology in the movie. It is sufficient that she has it, is Raymond's handler, and that one can not trust appearances, especially of uber-patriots. One is supposed to accept that she, for whatever reasons, works for the KGB (and in this story world a sort of monolithic world Communism that never really existed) and was truly dedicated to the objective of taking over the U.S. Government. Her intention to use that power against them only results from their choice of Raymond as the killer. This is all explained extremely clearly in critical scene but without any specifics on a back story.
I have, but have not read, the book which might have explained more back story on Mrs. Iselin. This motivates me to do some research on that. (I started on it but did not like Condon's writing style enough to push on then put it aside to read other things.)
One might also wonder what sort of man the late Mr. Shaw, Raymond's father, might have been that would have fit in with Mrs. Iselin (formerly Shaw)'s ideals and plans.
CB
Good Times, Noodle Salad -
dcavalli — 9 years ago(July 25, 2016 10:49 AM)
If you're a communist or a "fellow traveler" (a leftist who was a never a formal member of the party but still supported communist and Soviet goals), a convincing "cover" can be prentending to be conservative and anti-communist.
Convicted spy Robert Hansen was supposedly a devout Roman Catholic, a member of Opus Dei, and was very conservative, but he betrayed the U.S. for the USSR.