New restoration DVD
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bullit2513 — 20 years ago(June 30, 2005 10:25 AM)
The new dvd will feature added material from the versions that have been shown on AMC and the Western Channel Recently. Look through this message board to see what has been added or check out www.dvdsavant.com for a great review of the extended version.
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bullit2513 — 20 years ago(July 04, 2005 11:33 AM)
I don't have the western channel so I can't be sure, but I don't think they're showing the extended cut. The DVD comes out Aug. 31 so I doubt the added footage would alreay be on television.
If it helps, here are a couple scenes in the extended cut.
-Upon returning from the Rostis ranch after the massacre, Major Dundee and his troop come upon Captain Tyreen and his men who have escaped from the stockade.
-What happens to Riago is shown late in the movie. Is he a traitor or is he loyal to Dundee and Potts?
-IMO, the best scene added has Dundee, Tyreen, Potts, Graham, and Gomez deciding what they should do; continue chasing Sierra Chariba into Mexico or head back to Texas?
Hopes this helps, teejay. -
Flashpants — 20 years ago(September 23, 2005 04:24 PM)
The have put a different score on Major Dundee as well. Which is AWFUL.
The original is still on there on the mono soundtrack, but would of been better in the remastered 5.1, but the new score is horrid.
The original was one of the best to ever go in a film. Then they change it for no reason.
New scenes weren't anything special apart from finding out what happened to Riago.
Still, the quality is great for it's age.
IN FUNK WE TRUST -
bullit2513 — 20 years ago(September 23, 2005 09:27 PM)
I actually liked the new score by Christopher Caliendo. It sounded a lot like a Jerry Fielding score, or at least more moody/appropriate for a darker Sam Peckinpah western.
Besides the Mitch Miller "Fall in Behind the Major" song and that annoying twing that sounded when anyone said "Until the Apache is taken or destroyed," I liked the original score by Danielle Amphitreaof, but I thought Caliendo's was better overall. My one complaint about the new score was in the final battle. It was too quiet where the original had an excellent chaotic feel to it.
It was great to see the added footage. The scene of Dundee, Tyreen, Potts, Gomez, and Graham discussing what to do with the Apaches and the truth about Riago was the best scene added. It was good to see the lost weekend in Durango, Tyreen's escape in the beginning, and a few other shorter scenes.
Great DVD and well worth the wait.
"I don't mean to be a sore loser, but if when it's over, I'm dead, kill him." Butch Cassidy -
Flashpants — 20 years ago(September 25, 2005 07:02 AM)
I jut felt the original score brought more punch to the film. It brought more tension and excitement. Especially towards the end. Yes, I agree the twang when anyone said "until the Apache is taken or destroy" was annoying, mainly because it was over used.
I haven't really got any complaints about the new scenes, I only wonder what's missing in the other 17 minutes that we never seen.
Still, do you not think that adding a new score without the directors consent is butchering the film? I suppose it can be seen as an added feature as the original is on the DVD in mono. But still.
IN FUNK WE TRUST -
bullit2513 — 20 years ago(September 25, 2005 12:12 PM)
On the commentary on the DVD with the Peckinpah historians, they say that the massacre scenes were probably never filmed. They do concede that Peckinpah worked on the Rostes massacre scenes at some point, but they were either not up to snuff or never finished for a final product.
Indiana, I agree about being disappointed about never knowing the full version, however long that may be, that Sam intended. On the original 1965 trailer, several brief shots are shown that are not in any version I've ever seen. Check out dvdsavant for a deeper look at the movie, including some things that didn't make it into the final cut.
"I don't mean to be a sore loser, but if when it's over, I'm dead, kill him." Butch Cassidy -
ruggedrascal — 20 years ago(September 25, 2005 04:14 PM)
Peckinpah reportedly did not like the original score (the composer was chosen by the studio), so that's the reason behind the new score, to bring it closer to Peckinpah's own taste in movie music. Personally I think they should just have adapted the original score to keep some of it in but take out the "twang" and the stupid march and some of the bad orchestration but since the original score is there on the DVD, I don't think it matters much.
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Hancock_the_Superb — 20 years ago(October 02, 2005 05:42 AM)
Well, I bought the DVD on the cheap from my local Wal-Mart yesterday. Don't plan to watch the whole movie for awhile, but I did view the special features, and I watched a few scenes mostly to see how the new score came off. I haven't seen much yet, but I like what I've seen so far. If you like the film, it's worth getting regardless.
"It is recognized that you have a funny sense of fun." - Claude Rains, "Lawrence of Arabia" -
wohara1 — 20 years ago(October 02, 2005 11:25 AM)
I think that the new, extended version is much more in line with what Peckinpah intended, but it's still incomplete. I would like to see the initial massacre at the Rostes ranch reinstated. It was filmed. I don't think that the set would have been burned down on camera if they weren't done with it. I'd also like to see the Potts/Gomez knife fight somehow reinserted. That was a shining moment for Coburn.
As for the new soundtrack, it took a couple of sessions to set in, but that annoying tinkerbell squeal is out of my head and I don't miss a chorus of all male singers cheerfully exhorting me to fall in and mind the major while watching bloody corpses fester in the sun. The real howler is that the major will bring all of us back! He hardly brought anyone back.
We deal in lead, friend. -
Hancock_the_Superb — 20 years ago(October 02, 2005 02:24 PM)
Well, I like the "tinkerbell squeal" and the "Major Dundee March". They're campy but fun. I watched about half the movie (all of the "good parts") today and I enjoyed the score, I think it's better than the original one to be sure. The knife fight - between my two favorite characters - should've been longer and definitely should've been put in the movie.
"It is recognized that you have a funny sense of fun." - Claude Rains, "Lawrence of Arabia" -
wohara1 — 20 years ago(October 02, 2005 06:13 PM)
Well, I guess we can agree to disagree about that atonal kneejerk electronic doorbell, and I admit that the tune for the Dundee march might be adequate if it had been used more sparingly, but we're agreed about that (pardon the word) cut knife fight. Think how it would have reinforced that later moment when Potts and Gomez got lost while rescuing Dundee in Durango. That strange image of them drunkenly riding back to the command would have cemented the friendship that began that night. Also missed is Gomez's confession to Dundee that he had lived with the Apache just before Tyreen is recaptured. He and Potts share a similar familiarity with the Indians. And I really appreciate that scene when the two translate for that old toothless Apache on Christmas Eve.
All those nuances cut for spite and/or greed. What a waste.
We deal in lead, friend. -
Hancock_the_Superb — 20 years ago(October 03, 2005 03:33 PM)
Agreed, I thought a lot of the supporting characters got short shrift (particularly Aesop and Ryan).
I didn't like the original score, it was kind of cheesy, but for me at least it didn't distract from the film. I did think that the final battle scene was one part where the original score was appropriate, though that's just me. There's hardly any music at all in the restored version's scene, and for me, it's kind of distracting.
"It is recognized that you have a funny sense of fun." - Claude Rains, "Lawrence of Arabia" -
bullit2513 — 20 years ago(October 03, 2005 09:04 PM)
I agree completely about the original score in the final battle. It makes that sense of chaos of battle seem very real. The new version is too quiet with lots of swords clanging and groans.
However, I do like after the battle when Dundee and the survivors cross the river. The music with the violin playing as the survivors come into view is perfectly somber which is more appropriate considering what has just happened.
At some points in the movie, I thought Christopher Caliendo's score sounded like Carter Burwell's The Alamo score.
"Well, Major, it looks like you have found yourself a real war after all." Captain Ben Tyreen -
wohara1 — 20 years ago(October 05, 2005 05:44 PM)
Valid points from both Hancock and Bullit. I read someplace that Bressler over-used the original score in the battle scene rather than spend additional money on a sound effects track. That deficiency would have been revealed once the music track was deleted, which may account for the sound vacuum.
You have to really pay attention to realize that Aesop is carrying the flag in the final counterattack and is struck down by Tremaine. Likewise, if you don't recall Wiley's stetson, you can't tell that he's shot off his horse and smashes his riflebutt into a lancer's face. You never see the actors' faces. I think both Arthur Hadley and Dahlstrom are the only two characters who merit inserts detailing their demise. I'm sure that the footage was shot for all of them but not included in the studio's cut. Perhaps the omission is a blessing since the gore in the master shot of Hadley is missing in the insert.
I have to confess that I consider Caliendo's score an improvement, but not an ideal replacement. Goldsmith or Bernstein, with a full orchestra and adequate budget would be my preference, but it's a valid attempt. I'm not a fan of Burwell's Alamo score because I believe it slows the action down. I like to recall Bernstein's tale of being criticized by DeMille for composing a reverential, somber piece for the exodus scene in Ten Commandments. DeMille told him to speed up the tempo, which he did, which galvanizes a montage of people basically just getting up and walking. I maintain that Burwell's Alamo scoring, which is very good otherwise, detracts from the battle scenes by it's dirgelike pace.
Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. I really enjoy an opportunity to contact people with similar interests.
We deal in lead, friend.