New restoration DVD
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ruggedrascal — 20 years ago(September 25, 2005 04:14 PM)
Peckinpah reportedly did not like the original score (the composer was chosen by the studio), so that's the reason behind the new score, to bring it closer to Peckinpah's own taste in movie music. Personally I think they should just have adapted the original score to keep some of it in but take out the "twang" and the stupid march and some of the bad orchestration but since the original score is there on the DVD, I don't think it matters much.
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Hancock_the_Superb — 20 years ago(October 02, 2005 05:42 AM)
Well, I bought the DVD on the cheap from my local Wal-Mart yesterday. Don't plan to watch the whole movie for awhile, but I did view the special features, and I watched a few scenes mostly to see how the new score came off. I haven't seen much yet, but I like what I've seen so far. If you like the film, it's worth getting regardless.
"It is recognized that you have a funny sense of fun." - Claude Rains, "Lawrence of Arabia" -
wohara1 — 20 years ago(October 02, 2005 11:25 AM)
I think that the new, extended version is much more in line with what Peckinpah intended, but it's still incomplete. I would like to see the initial massacre at the Rostes ranch reinstated. It was filmed. I don't think that the set would have been burned down on camera if they weren't done with it. I'd also like to see the Potts/Gomez knife fight somehow reinserted. That was a shining moment for Coburn.
As for the new soundtrack, it took a couple of sessions to set in, but that annoying tinkerbell squeal is out of my head and I don't miss a chorus of all male singers cheerfully exhorting me to fall in and mind the major while watching bloody corpses fester in the sun. The real howler is that the major will bring all of us back! He hardly brought anyone back.
We deal in lead, friend. -
Hancock_the_Superb — 20 years ago(October 02, 2005 02:24 PM)
Well, I like the "tinkerbell squeal" and the "Major Dundee March". They're campy but fun. I watched about half the movie (all of the "good parts") today and I enjoyed the score, I think it's better than the original one to be sure. The knife fight - between my two favorite characters - should've been longer and definitely should've been put in the movie.
"It is recognized that you have a funny sense of fun." - Claude Rains, "Lawrence of Arabia" -
wohara1 — 20 years ago(October 02, 2005 06:13 PM)
Well, I guess we can agree to disagree about that atonal kneejerk electronic doorbell, and I admit that the tune for the Dundee march might be adequate if it had been used more sparingly, but we're agreed about that (pardon the word) cut knife fight. Think how it would have reinforced that later moment when Potts and Gomez got lost while rescuing Dundee in Durango. That strange image of them drunkenly riding back to the command would have cemented the friendship that began that night. Also missed is Gomez's confession to Dundee that he had lived with the Apache just before Tyreen is recaptured. He and Potts share a similar familiarity with the Indians. And I really appreciate that scene when the two translate for that old toothless Apache on Christmas Eve.
All those nuances cut for spite and/or greed. What a waste.
We deal in lead, friend. -
Hancock_the_Superb — 20 years ago(October 03, 2005 03:33 PM)
Agreed, I thought a lot of the supporting characters got short shrift (particularly Aesop and Ryan).
I didn't like the original score, it was kind of cheesy, but for me at least it didn't distract from the film. I did think that the final battle scene was one part where the original score was appropriate, though that's just me. There's hardly any music at all in the restored version's scene, and for me, it's kind of distracting.
"It is recognized that you have a funny sense of fun." - Claude Rains, "Lawrence of Arabia" -
bullit2513 — 20 years ago(October 03, 2005 09:04 PM)
I agree completely about the original score in the final battle. It makes that sense of chaos of battle seem very real. The new version is too quiet with lots of swords clanging and groans.
However, I do like after the battle when Dundee and the survivors cross the river. The music with the violin playing as the survivors come into view is perfectly somber which is more appropriate considering what has just happened.
At some points in the movie, I thought Christopher Caliendo's score sounded like Carter Burwell's The Alamo score.
"Well, Major, it looks like you have found yourself a real war after all." Captain Ben Tyreen -
wohara1 — 20 years ago(October 05, 2005 05:44 PM)
Valid points from both Hancock and Bullit. I read someplace that Bressler over-used the original score in the battle scene rather than spend additional money on a sound effects track. That deficiency would have been revealed once the music track was deleted, which may account for the sound vacuum.
You have to really pay attention to realize that Aesop is carrying the flag in the final counterattack and is struck down by Tremaine. Likewise, if you don't recall Wiley's stetson, you can't tell that he's shot off his horse and smashes his riflebutt into a lancer's face. You never see the actors' faces. I think both Arthur Hadley and Dahlstrom are the only two characters who merit inserts detailing their demise. I'm sure that the footage was shot for all of them but not included in the studio's cut. Perhaps the omission is a blessing since the gore in the master shot of Hadley is missing in the insert.
I have to confess that I consider Caliendo's score an improvement, but not an ideal replacement. Goldsmith or Bernstein, with a full orchestra and adequate budget would be my preference, but it's a valid attempt. I'm not a fan of Burwell's Alamo score because I believe it slows the action down. I like to recall Bernstein's tale of being criticized by DeMille for composing a reverential, somber piece for the exodus scene in Ten Commandments. DeMille told him to speed up the tempo, which he did, which galvanizes a montage of people basically just getting up and walking. I maintain that Burwell's Alamo scoring, which is very good otherwise, detracts from the battle scenes by it's dirgelike pace.
Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. I really enjoy an opportunity to contact people with similar interests.
We deal in lead, friend. -
Hancock_the_Superb — 20 years ago(November 27, 2005 02:59 PM)
Another scene which I like (though I may be alone) with the original score is Dundee's briefing of Potts at Fort Benlin. After Potts says "That's Riago", this ominous string music begins playing in the background. Given that the scene is about the supposed (un)trustworthiness of Riago and the other Apache scout, I think that the music does add a nice air to this particular scene (even with the "Apache doorbell" noise chiming in).
Best scene with the new soundtrack is the river ambush; it enhances the creepy, suspenseful feel to the scene that is largely lacking in the original version.
"We don't give a good
FART
about the socialist workers
or
their movements!" -
Mr_Sea — 20 years ago(November 23, 2005 11:49 AM)
Agreed,
The initial massacre scene at the Rostis Ranch would have been a great addition. I was told there were 5 scripted battles that were filmed in "Major Dundee", along with a sequence that was in the script, entitled, Rostis Ranch"(the person isn't sure if that was a battle sequence though)
I can remember only 4 battles if you count the capture of the French garrison in the village as a battle:- The river crossing
- The capture of the French garrison in the village
- The battle where Chariba is killed
- The final battle with the French at the Rio grande.
- ??????
Perhaps the fifth is the missing Rostis Ranch massacre?
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Hancock_the_Superb — 20 years ago(December 21, 2005 04:28 PM)
Would you include the rescue of Dundee, the ambush of Dundee and Teresa by the lakeside, or the raid on the French horses as "battles" by your criteria?
"That scarf belonged to Lieutenant Brannin." "It's for you, Major!" -
indioblack117 — 11 years ago(October 13, 2014 04:09 PM)
The new score is dreadful. I just bought a Spanish BluRay, beautiful picture, but it has the new flat emotionless score that fails so many times to support the drama. There isn't even a tune for the French Lancers, so when they first appear in the movie in long shot, you haven't a clue that they are not Dundee's men, intercut rather badly. Harris' heroic charge at the end, with his men watching with glistening eyes no longer has any feeling because the traditional Irish tune that weaves in is no longer there.
Fortunately, the BluRay has the original score for the French, German and Italian audio, plus English subtitles, so I guess I'll rewatch it in Italian, because watching with the new score left me completely cold. -
Eric-62-2 — 11 years ago(December 30, 2014 12:29 AM)
I HATE the new score and I think its appalling how this tampering with a movie by obsessed fanboys of Sam Peckinpah trying to make Daniele Amfitheatrof a scapegoat for the film's shortcomings hasn't received more blowback from the people who correctly see colorization and updated CGI effects in an old film as tampering the essence of what the film originally was. It's one thing to add scenes that were shot at the time, and its also one thing to include a rejected score that was composed at the time (like for instance if we could hear Herrmann's score for "Torn Curtain" on an alternate track) but to commission a new score just because the director, who was not the man with the authority to decide the subject in this case, hated it (these people should go back and replace the score for "Ride The High Country" if they want to be consistent) is to me as wrong as colorization is.