Don't understand the dislike for Turnabout Intruder
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jxh13 — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 03:12 AM)
Why did you like or dislike it?
My biggest quibble is the mind-switcheroo technology, which is introduced and discarded with no explanation; the machine is never really discussed, the philosophy behind the process is ignored, and how Janice Lester found exactly the device she needed is glossed over. In a science fiction show, the "science" should be taken more seriously, rather than simply used as a gimmick. It feels more like a
Gilligan's Island
idea than the basis of a
Star Trek
episode.
Beyond that, I tend to agree that the episode works pretty well in a dramatic sense. I think Spock and Scotty come out pretty well, and the passive resistance of the bridge crew was well considered. The idea that Security could act as a private army for the Captain was scary.
I though Miss Smith did pretty well as she-Kirk; opinion is sharply divided on Shatner's performance, but I think he did okay with what he had to work with. -
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jozzcooper — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 05:14 PM)
In a science fiction show, the "science" should be taken more seriously, rather than simply used as a gimmick.
Star Trek's science leans heavily to the science fantasy side, much like Star Wars. Any nod to science is usually along the "reverse the polarity" route. Teleportation, FTL travel, "subspace" radio, gravity on a starship, etc. All a bunch of baloney. I never watched much of Next Generation, but I recall the Data character saying something about a "positronic" brain and Asimov. Too bad that the writers didn't show Asimov more respect and scratch the positronic nonsense. He did. -
grizzledgeezer — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 07:46 AM)
My gripe about "Turnabout Intruder" has always been its revelation that Star Fleet won't allow Terran women to captain a starship. This isn't explicitly stated, but implied ("If only").
Given that
Star Trek
is implicitly liberal/progressive, it's hard to understand how this got into the story other than as a plausible contributor to Janice Lester's mental unbalance.
The
Star Trek Continues
episode "The White Iris" handles the issue of gender discrimination more believably, with a nominally qualified female officer criticized for what others consider her weak decision-making skills. It ends with no resolution (an unexpected event closes the opening she's trying to fill), and fortunately, no lecture. -
kerryedavis — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 03:45 PM)
Similar to something like The Odd Man Hypothesis from the original Andromeda Strain movie (not the dreadful TV miniseries remake) it's not inconceivable that future research might find some quantifiable reason why females are not suitable for starship command, especially in earlier riskier times such as shown in much of TOS.
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jxh13 — 9 years ago(October 18, 2016 03:03 AM)
It's been a while, but my memory of the Odd Man Hypothesis from
Andromeda
is that it was invented to convince the government to let them have a nuclear weapon to cleanse a breakout event - in other words, it was a convincing lie. -
kerryedavis — 9 years ago(October 18, 2016 02:20 PM)
Maybe that was in the book, it's been a long time since I read it and I don't remember either way. But that was definitely not part of the movie.
It seems more likely that Robertson was doing research for the government on who should be making nuclear decisions in all sorts of situations, and for the Wildfire situation it meant that Hall should be the one "in charge." -
kerryedavis — 9 years ago(October 20, 2016 03:38 AM)
The biggest single problem with both the book and the movie is that, according to the information given, Andromeda would not have killed the mice and monkeys used in their testing. The normal blood pH of mice and monkeys is outside of the range that Andromeda was said to grow in.
Which raises the question, how did Crichton make that mistake? He seemed too smart for that. -
jxh13 — 9 years ago(October 20, 2016 05:59 AM)
Which raises the question, how did Crichton make that mistake? He seemed too smart for that.
Yeah, smart and experienced. I remember reading somewhere that he based
Andromeda
on Arthur Conan Doyle's
The Poison Belt,
and perhaps Crichton was inspired to let medical facts slide in the interest of what he saw as dramatic tension, which is something Dr Doyle was certainly capable. of. -
ben-thayer — 9 years ago(October 20, 2016 06:41 AM)
Speaking of female anatomy
In one episode of Farscape, Crichton and Aeryn Sun's minds switch bodies. There's a scene with Crichton looking in the mirror, reveling in the fact that he has female parts, saying something like "this is every teenage boy's dream"
The wife and I were highly amused
Oh, just realized some were also discussing Michael Crichtoninteresting coincidence! -
grizzledgeezer — 9 years ago(October 18, 2016 03:05 PM)
it's not inconceivable that future research might find some quantifiable reason why females are not suitable for starship command
People vary so much that it's hard to believe there might be a single factor that disqualifies every member of a group from performing a particular job.
Things have changed so much in 50 years that the opposite error of reasoning has taken over that anyone can do anything, if they simply want it badly enough. -
BenjiCarver — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 10:30 AM)
Funny, I started a thread with a similar theme last week and it got deleted. Anyway, I came across this episode last week on BBC America and thought it was better than I remembered. Silly premise, but enjoyable and the acting was good. Sure Shatner was over the top but he looked he was really enjoying himself as "Dr. Lester."
This episode also gave us the "Let me show you my shocked face" meme.
I call woo woo on you, -
Blueghost — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 11:04 AM)
It lacks the production values of the previous two seasons, and is even sparse for a third season episode. But I still think it's decent enough.
I'm just sorry Star Trek could not have ended with a proper "finale" episode, and just stopped being after this one.
A lot of the comments in years past seem to put down Shatner's performance. But to me he's playing the part of a "femme-fatale", and does a pretty good job of it. It's what actors do. I think the chief complaint among Cpt. Kirk fans is that he's "a woman" in this episode, for lack of a better term.
It's science fiction. And I don't see why this episode gets singled out like Spock's Brain. Spock's Brain truly was hokey because of the neurosurgery of putting Spock's brain back into Spock, among other elements. But like Turnabout Intruder it has redeeming elements in it. Neither is a favorite of mine, but it's decent TV. -
TMC-4 — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 02:52 PM)
http://rowdyc.com/tv-trash-turnabout-intruder/
http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/s079.php
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/turnabout-intruder.283209/ -
rcocean3 — 9 years ago(October 17, 2016 05:31 PM)
I like the episode. The SJW's don't like it because it doesn't fit their their party line view of how women should be shown on TV.
You see every TV show should "push the narrative" otherwise its raciss/sexist/bigoted/homophobic/blah de blah.
The only real thing wrong with the episode is that Shatner hams it up too often.
Yeah, we get it Bill, you're playing a somewhat psychotic woman.
But you have to give him points for doing the role. How many leading men would've played a woman? Can you imagine Lee Marvin or Charles Bronson in the role?