War films; which need to be remade?
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tgoc — 19 years ago(January 24, 2007 07:46 PM)
Dear lambretta,
I am impressed beyond words by you knowledge of Scots history, the First War, and its connection to football.
( In case I did not make it clear, I am a Canadian, and for reasons I know not, our sports, whith the exception of hockey, which is something of a religion here, have mostly, saddly, followed American trends.)
As you say, Scottish history alone offers much material for what could be great films. I must say that I never saw "Braveheart", but from what little I know of it, Mel Gibson was grinding his own axes in that film. The same, I am told, is true of his film"Patriot", which even people who had no particular position on the American Rebellion found to be offensive.
The story of Col McCrae sounds like it would make an outstanding film, but I am not sufficiently familiar with younger actors to suggest much in the way of casting. Obviously, twenty years ago, it would have been a part
made
for Sir Sean Connery. Who was that brilliant young Scottish actor who was in "Train-spotting"? I think he went on to do some American television.
Speaking of Culloden, did you ever see that , I suppose the word would be docu-drama, about the battle done by, I think Lindsey Anderson ? It was rather quirky, with "reporters" interviewing the participants, but was quite striking. I remember a point at which one of the reporters held up a bag of shot and said," This is grape-shot, and this[ at which point we saw a group of charging Highlanders blown to smithereens] is what it does."
I should add that while I am Canadian, my maternal grandfather, name of Dorrance, fought with the Canadian army in the trenches. He was born in Kilmarnock.
There is sometyhing special about war films that I cannot quite define perhaps it is the chance to view humanity stretched to its uttermost, and sometimes it produces great films. You have no doubt heard of the various exploits of Sir Colin Campbell; now there is a man whose character and leadership would be well worth exploring.
Yours hoping to pursue this in future,
TGOC -
lambrettaguy200 — 19 years ago(January 28, 2007 12:45 AM)
I tend to feel that Mel G (sounds like one of the spice girls) tends to use his same acting formula no matter what the film role. To me, he was the same in Braveheart as in We Were Soldiers and other pics - the straight, sometimes awkward, honest guy confused by double-dealers and big politics (the eyebrow raise and distant 'its beyond me' look), who always has time to cross himself (are all his heroes RC ? I know he is himself and seems to fit it into film roles).
Braveheart is a good yarn if seen as that with its big battle scenes lovey-dovey scenes etc. It registers high on patriotism and 'bash the english' agenda, which Hollywood likes to do now and again (English actors have cornered the market in classy Hollywood villains). Historically it stretches fact such a long way its difficult to know where to start the inaccuracy list, but just look at it as a ripping yarn, that's all. Mind you, I first saw it in Bandar Lampung, Sumatera, Indonesia in 1995, with some Dutch work colleagues and a cinema full of everyday Indonesians. Remember Indonesia had a big struggle for independence against the Dutch in the mid/late 1940's, which they won. The audience was enthusiastic about this subtitled tale of a struggle for independence. But the ending - where Wallce is being tortured and dissected, when he shouts that last word "FREEDOM !!", as soon as the subttitled version of that word came up on screen "MERDEKA !!", the cinema audience went really wild, cheering and clapping as hard as they could. I was amazed ! I realised Freedom is a big word there.
Trainspotting actors included Ewen McGregor and Robert Carlyle.
Sir Colin Campbell ? Self-made man, born in poor background/surroundings in Glasgow, rising to General. Commanding the Highland Brigade in the Crimea (and direcing the 93rd Sutherland Highlanders defence of Balaklava - The Thin Red Line), then a rescue force in the Indian Mutiny to Cawnpore and Lucknow, in charge of the 93rd Sutherland Highlanders (6 VC's before breakfast) on both occasions. -
nowhereman-4 — 16 years ago(May 01, 2009 10:36 PM)
Lambrettaguy (and tgoc),
I realize these posts are more than a couple of years old now, but I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed them. You gentlemen's knowledge is impressive, to say the least!
I do have one minor correction, regarding "The Great Escape". You state:
I seem to recall James Garner in Great Escape wearing Canada titles on his RAF uniform, same as Cliff Robertson in 633 Squadron, Americans portraying Canadians in the RAF.
For all I know, you are correct about Hendley's insignia (but, see below). However, the character Hendley is definitely American. IIRC, this is stated more than once; plus, we see the only three Americans in camp - Hendley, Hilts, and Goff - leading the Independence Day celebration. There is also this, from IMDb's "Goofs" section on "The Great Escape":
Incorrectly regarded as goofs: Hendley wears USA flashes on his uniform. This shows that he is an American serving in the RAF and is a member of the Famous "Eagle" squadrons, three squadrons composed of Americans who joined the RAF. This also means that Hendley was shot down before 1944, since the squadrons were re-absorbed by the USAAF at that time.
Sorry to nitpick such a marvelously written post.
All the situations you describe have the potential for excellent portrayals on the silver screen. "Culloden", especially, if handled correctly. Whether or not any such films would find a large audience is another matter - but then, I suppose that's true of any film endeavor.
In regards to historical accuracy - I give a damn about it (and I certainly give a damn about history!), but not to the point of obsession. If a group of soldiers is shown carrying a model of rifle that was, in reality, introduced three years later, that in no way detracts from the movie, for me. "Gods And Generals" is a good example. All the uniforms, flags, equipment, and ordnance are rendered completely accurately, in meticulous detail - but that still doesn't make it a good film. And this is from an avid student of the American Civil War (about which there is still a serious dearth of good movies). On this matter, I tend to subscribe to Roger Ebert's view, expressed in his review of "Gods And Generals" - historical accuracy is an attribute, not a virtue. It shouldn't be the be-all end-all of moviemaking. You can still have a beautiful, affecting film, even if a few caps are the wrong color.
I have long been fascinated by your native Scotland. I don't really know why - my people were German and English. I guess it started with a boyhood obsession with Nessie! For someone over 45 years of age, I am embarrassingly poorly travelled, but I
have
managed to make it to Scotland, twice. On the first trip in 2000, I visited the field at Culloden (but sadly, arrived after the visitors center had closed). Four years later, I stopped in the Scottish National War Memorial at Edinburgh Castle. Magnificent! Unfortunately, interior photography was forbidden, and the gift shop had no good books on the Memorial. I need to find one on the web, somewhere.
Thanks again to you and tgoc, for all your wonderful contributions! -
Hancock_the_Superb — 16 years ago(May 21, 2009 03:19 PM)
I don't particularly like Pearl Harbor, but neither can I claim to be a fan of Battle of Britain or Tora! Tora! Tora! - both represent bloated epic filmmaking at its worst. I did love A Bridge Too Far though.
"If you cant say something good about someone, sit right here by me." -
tgoc — 19 years ago(January 31, 2007 07:46 PM)
Dear Ethelred, the ill-advised, or badly-counselled,
I can't say that I agree with you about the "Dam Busters". The great appeal of that film was its intricasy, not its scale. I don't see how CGI could improve on those scenes where they were trying to perfect the bomb. And after all, the mission itself only involved some 18 aircraft, so again an epic, army-of-millions scale is hardly needed.
But as I've said , I think that much could be done with the Battle of Waterloo. I mean a good film-maker like the man who did "Lord of the Rings" could bring out the importance of the event itself, the major personalities, the weight of numbers involved, the extreme violence of it all, and the many sub-plots that the facts make available, and could make of it a very fine film.
Yours,
TGOC
" Next to a battle lost, the greatest misery is a battle gained." -
tgoc — 19 years ago(February 16, 2007 12:40 AM)
Dear Ethelred,
If you are interested in a war film that really would benefit from CGI, I suggest that you get your hands on a copy of Len Deighton's "Bomber." Why that has not already been made into a film I cannot imagine.
Yours,
TGOC -
rglasby — 17 years ago(September 19, 2008 12:31 PM)
David Putnam tried to get the money together to make a movie about an RAF bomber mission - unfortunately he couldn't get enough backing
So he changed it to a USAAF bomber mission, got the backing and made "Memphis Belle" -
tgoc — 16 years ago(May 08, 2009 09:47 PM)
Dear Rags:
Well, there you are. A film of "Bomber" would (or could) have been good. "M.B." was another matter entirely: good of its kind, but a different kind, in my often wrong opinion.
But many thanks for your response.
TGOC -
mumpymorte — 16 years ago(April 04, 2009 05:16 AM)
"Culloden" for sure.
Peter Watkins' docudrama is quite commendable, but I always yearned for a big budget retelling of this harrowing and tragic tale. A problem from the "Hollywood" film making point of view would be a lack of sympathetic major characters on either side of the conflict; Prince Charles was an ass, plain and simple, and "Stinking Billy" Cumberland was an ignorant butcher. I would hate to see Bonnie Prince Charlie romanticized yet again. That silly film with David Niven was quite enough, thank you.
Perhaps one of the "minor" characters, especially on the Jacobite side, could be the focus of such a film. The story itself is certainly prime material for a cracking good piece of cinema.
I'm led to understand that the short film made for the Culloden Battlefield visitor's center is very good indeed. But I've only seen a tiny trailer, the only way to see the whole thing, so far as I know, is to travel to Culloden itself, and as wonderful as that would be, it is an impossibility for me. -
nowhereman-4 — 16 years ago(May 01, 2009 10:49 PM)
mumpymorte -
I think your idea for a big budget depiction of the Culloden story is spot on. I like your idea of focusing on one of the Jacobean lesser lights - perhaps even an ordinary soldier that managed to survive the battle, and brutal aftermath. Maybe the film could begin with the "battle" - "slaughter" might be more appropriate - and then cover a number of years after, showing how effectively and harshly the old Highland way of life was strangled to death. Perhaps end with the emigration of the old soldier and his family.
One question: what is the title of the Niven film of which you speak?
I made it to Culloden in 2000, but unfortunately, I arrived after the visitors' center had closed. So, I haven't seen that short, either. Doesn't look like I'll make it back over anytime soon, either. -
david_colbourne — 16 years ago(August 27, 2009 01:32 PM)
The Niven film is called "Bonnie Prince Charlie", made in 1948 with Niven as the bonnie prince. If I remember rightly it doesn't have that much in common with actual events! Niven didn't appear to rate it too highly, either, judging by his account in his autobiography, it appears to have been an uncomfortable experience.
There is another film about Culloden, "Chasing the Deer", 1994, starring Brian Blessed and Iain Cuthbertson. Little known, but very good, I've got a copy on video, well worth a look if you can track it down. -
Hancock_the_Superb — 16 years ago(May 21, 2009 03:16 PM)
I'd like to see a newer film on the Boxer Rebellion. 55 Days at Peking isn't bad for what it is, but we know so much more about the Rebellion in 2009 compared to 1963 that a remake in the right hands would probably be an improvement. Certainly the simplistic "world unites to smite a common enemy" theme of the original could be turned into something far more interesting and complex - "world powers forced to grudgingly cooperate with one another, each trying to protect their own turf and prestige."
"If you cant say something good about someone, sit right here by me." -
tgoc — 16 years ago(June 05, 2009 09:55 PM)
Dear Superbus:
Why are the Britons so modest? Why no films about the Napoleonic war, the Crimea ( apart from that one piece of nonsense) the Mutiny? Why should films about the Boer War be made only by delusional Australians? For that matter, we could do with a few films about the many British victories in the American insurrection. Is The Patriot to be accepted as any kind of truth.
Yours,
TGOC -
Hancock_the_Superb — 14 years ago(June 25, 2011 05:53 PM)
I think Terry Brighton's recent Hell Riders could make a good film or miniseries, if done right. Maybe even Flashman at the Charge if you're not too concerned with strict historicity.
I disagree about the film not being expensive though - procuring and creating period clothing/weapons/sets, let alone raising thousands of extras, let alone CGI and other effects, would probably cost tens of millions of dollars.
I do think the Crimean War deserves a better treatment than it's gotten. I like the Errol Flynn Charge of the Light Brigade, but that has as much to do with the Crimean War as Raiders of the Lost Ark does with the Holocaust. The '68 film is too bogged down with shrill anti-war posturing; if it weren't for some performances (especially Trevor Howard) and the brilliant animated scenes it would be a waste of time.
"Lola, I love you, you selfish bitch!" -
tgoc-41-30447 — 14 years ago(July 13, 2011 05:17 PM)
Dear Superbus:
I hope that this finds you well.
You are quite right that the Charge of the Light Brigade has never been properly treated in any film. On the page, of course, Cecil Woodham-Smith has given the event an illuminating treatment.
I happen to be a fan of the late George MacDonald Fraser's "Flashman" books, and surely many of them would make good films I mean sex and violence seldom disappoint. In addition to that, as you will know if you have read any of his books, Fraser took great pains to be historically accurate. (In fact, I think of Fraser as a modern version of G.A. Henty who, as you probably know,wrote many books about the best episodes in British history). The extremely talented Kenneth Branagh might do well in the eponymous role of Flashman in Fraser's
books.
Speaking of Mr Branagh, did you ever happen to see a film about the Wansee Conference, in Nazi Germany, in which Branagh played Heidrich? It was a harrowing film, and he was brilliant making the hows and details of the Final Solution seem so plausible. I think that it was a stage play before being filmed.
I hope that you are prospering,
Yours ever,
TGOC
Could always have done the Augsburg daylight raid, I suppose.