Masterpiece
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nandodub — 19 years ago(October 25, 2006 04:24 AM)
I just saw the film and I think it's a very very honest and funny film. I completly reject the idea of a remake. Can't think of any good remake made in the lasts years. Maybe it would be interesting to see it as a play but if a movie is good, please don't touch it!!!
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ali__ — 19 years ago(October 26, 2006 01:59 AM)
i must agree. i watched the movie for a seminar at university here in helsinki and its reallly brilliant and keeps its comedic and tragic level from the beginning to the end. but so sad, that the ending is not happppy
but great actresses , great story and very brave for this time, i guess, even though homosexuality should always be something normal and tolerated. -
jpoling-1 — 18 years ago(April 24, 2007 05:50 PM)
I think it's one of the progressive gay films ever made. Beryl Reid makes absolutely no apologies to anyone. I read an interview with her and when asked about the ending she said, "I always felt George was the strongest character of the three because she HAD character. She had a center. She was moral and loving. She'll find another job, another girl. She was just at a low point. Everyone reaches that at some time in their life, am I right?"
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fabGirl — 18 years ago(May 18, 2007 02:09 PM)
Oh my God yes!
That's exactly what I thought. She was human, both reflecting what all of us pocess, the ability to be cruel but underneath the wanting to be loved. She was the only three dimensional character.
Childie had more power in the relationship then what critics care to actually see. Mercy Croft was well developed but her late enterance meant that you felt very little for her character. She was vain but you knew Childie would use her then leave.
It is definately one of the most positive progressive gay films, and personally my favourite film. I can never understand why people label it homophobic.
George didn't die, yes she lost her girlfriend but overall, like you said jpoling-1, she had a centre. She knew who she was and she wasn't going to hide it for anyone. She was proud of who she was and that message, for any gay or straight viewer, is surely a positive message.
Its an underrated classic in my opinion! -
jpoling-1 — 18 years ago(June 01, 2007 06:02 PM)
Right!?!
I also like how the failings in their lives didn't stem from the fact that they were lesbians, as it is in gay films prior to this, and after. It was the story of a relationship, the kind of love story always afforded only to sraight people. So much so that's never really even acknowleged. It just is. The characters are so absolutely universal. Regardless of who anyone is sexually, everyone will come across a Childie in their lives. LIke you said, someone with a lot of power in the relationship. And for every Childie, there's a Mercy who'll be used as often as she uses.
I wish George was my neighbor. -
fabGirl — 18 years ago(June 12, 2007 05:14 AM)
That's exactly right. The story is universal.
The sexuality of the characters comes second to the story. The film is a representation of a relationship. It allows the characters faults to be the breakdown of the realtionship rather than the fact that they are lesbians.
For George it is her stubborn behaviour. With Childie her cunning and deceptive behaviour. Only with George though are we allowed to see both good and bad traits, on the one hand a woman who is stubborn and on the other hand vunrable.
It also a brilliant film is the representation of women. It depicts three very different women just attempting to live in the world and getting by by whichever means necessary. -
ground_x — 18 years ago(July 01, 2007 12:59 AM)
Okay, so I watched this as part of TCM's sweetboy festival; and I am confused. This was not the saddest film in the festival; I'll give that to "The Children's Hour." But in some ways. "Sister George" is more nuanced. Yet am I really supposed to sympathize with George (Reid)because she is "authentic?" She is an abusive, mean drunk. Those around her made her that way?!? Hold up: Let's think about two other films: "The Pawn Broker" and "Once Were Warriors"in both, major characters are mean bastards; in the former, a misanthropic holocaust survivor, in the latter, a marginalized (and violent) Maori. Okay, maybe I am the archetype of the straight white liberal who don't get it, but is there not an objective definition of beep Beating up nuns and bullying S & M (the cigar butts), for crissake?
As for Childie (York, in a truly brave role), okay, so this is the stereotype of gay arrested development (yeah, many stereotypes do have some basis in reality). But the point is that GEORGE WANTED A BOTTOM. How is this morally superior to Mercy (Mrs. Price) wanting a babydyke? As for Mercy, do bear in mind that this is also a film about limeyswhat we perceive as pretense is their sense of reserve.
Now, as for THE scene: Remember, it starts with Mercy talking to Childie's doll. She is being a polished flirtis this now malevolent? Mercy goes for it But she was not there for a one night standshe takes Childie away. Now, how is this any different from the ubiquitous cop-rescues-hooker-from-pimp fantasy? Why the hell would Childie want to stay in this relationship? Would you? Yeah she's dim bulb, but she is basically kind. (As for her abandoned child, this is forty years ago). George may keep it real real, but she is almost never kind.
I accept some sociobiology, and I believe that men really do care more about looks, to wit: maybe I unconsciously cut cut Childie and Mercy more slack because they are physically attractive, and George is not. But I don't think so
Peace,
The Groundhog -
Downy1920 — 17 years ago(April 09, 2008 05:53 AM)
I'm all for glorifying this movie and noting how progressive it is and all. But i think some people are missing the point, or maybe I am. This movie isn't a "love story" its the opposite. Its a great movie but its about S&M and abuses. The actors are great, the directing is fine, its a good movie, but its not a positive one.
George is a sadist. Childie is a bored machocist. Mercy is a pedophile. its about the underground world of a subculture. NOt necessarily the "lesbian" subculture but of S&M woman-girl love.
Oh, and to those who said Childie has a lot of power, you're right. Bottoms usually control the relationship and carry the power. Their actions/behavior direct the TOP. They know what to say or do to get a response from their "masters".
This is also evident in the last scenes with Mercy. How Childie "acts" childish and says, "wouldn't it be wonderful" then does a childish "dream gaze" and "breathy" sigh (totally adorable), Mercy asks: "Wouldn't what be wonderful" and childie states: "If I could work for you in some sort of way, you know writing or something of the like" thier eyes lock, and Mercy responds, "well I don't know but we can see what we can doetc." Then Childie drinks her drink like a child (with both hands) then girlishly darts off to pack.
That scene if read right, shows what Childie wants and will do to get what Mercy can give her. Its so subtle, but totally understood.
I think a remake would be nice to see. Only if its focus is on the subculture of greedy individuals. I dunno. -
ldziub — 17 years ago(April 17, 2008 11:55 AM)
A frequent focus of Aldrich's was the case of the "outsider." That's what the film is ultimately about - George "didn't fit the machine" as Aldrich stated. Maybe he wasn't that successful in presenting that theme based on the responses here. It seems folks are more focused on the flaws of each character and the make-out session. And Mercy a pedophile? Are you joking?
Anyway, Reid refused to do a love scene with another woman which is why they even added the scene between Mercy and Childie. So the scene that everyone is focusing on as revealing the theme of the film was tacked on, and not even part of the original concept.
Perhaps a bad judgment call by Aldrich. -
refurber — 17 years ago(April 22, 2008 04:32 AM)
The Paedophile comment made me laugh!
I actually found it to be a cracking film. I do not see it as being homophobic at all.
I think a review i read and posted below sums all three characters up nicely.
The Killing of Sister George presents three opportunistic characters, each manipulative and vulnerable in their own way. Sister George's TV personality gives her a lot of ratings clout, but her personal lesbian life is a threat to Applehurst's universal appeal. Mercy has a secret attraction to women that could destroy her career, so she's forced to keep herself "in the closet" in order to preserve her power and credibility. Childie, however, is something of a wild card. As a simple sales clerk, she has really nothing to lose regarding her sexual preference or whatever social status she may lay claim to. Childie plays both George and Mercy to her advantage. To Childie, George offers only more and more games and role-playing, while Mercy just may be her ticket out of her relationship with George. -
Downy1920 — 17 years ago(May 06, 2008 08:10 AM)
frequent focus of Aldrich's was the case of the "outsider." That's what the film is ultimately about - George "didn't fit the machine" as Aldrich stated.
Then he totally messed up with that. George was comfortable in her own skin. She was not an outsider. She had her home, she had her lover, she had her friends, and she had her hangout. Are YOU serious? Totally not in the film I saw.
And Mercy a pedophile? Are you joking?
How is she not? She's obviously not a lesbian. Please explain yourself, or your sense of humor, cause it's falling flat over here.
Moreover ldziub, I'm really particular about calling BS fouls (People who make up stuff or rumors to suit their points). Where did you get your Robert Aldrich information? I would like to read/hear this. On my DVD there isn't a commentary. What format do you have? Or where are you getting your info at? I'm all for learning. -
ldziub — 17 years ago(May 06, 2008 09:24 AM)
Think I'm bluffing? Try educating yourself with either of Alain Silver's studies of Robert Aldrich and his films.
You're quite noble, going about calling out posters about the accuracy of their information. You expose your own confusion and bias with your posts. Read a bit, educate yourself, maybe that will help. -
refurber — 17 years ago(May 07, 2008 08:07 AM)
I am puzzled at the Mercy Croft is a paedophile comment. No she is not, i would say Mercy Croft thought Alice was a youngwoman of at least very early twentys. Alice Mcnaught was never portrayed as a young girl of under 16 years of age THAT would make Mercy a Paedophile.
And also Mercy Croft was a lesbian, a closested lesbian because if she came out she would lose her job and any credibility and power that went with it.
Can i ask, have you watched the same film as the rest of us? Because you have read paedophile in a character that doesnt exist, yet at the same time dismiss the same character as not being a lesbian.
On another note, read one of Coral Brownes Bios, Coral Browne: This effing Lady is a good read , it says in the book that the sex scene was a tag on.
Robert Aldrich said the betrayal had to be shown, hence the sex scene was added that and the fact Beryl Reid refused to do a sex scene. -
Crawfordfan — 17 years ago(June 01, 2008 03:01 PM)
Many of Aldrich's films - specifically those centring on the lives of women (but not exclusively), and which may be classed as revisionist melodramas, often focus upon the misfortunes of celebrity: The Big Knife, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?, and The Legend Of Lylah Clare spring to mind. The Killing of Sister George clearly fits alongside these, with the BBC replacing tinseltown!
I agree Refurber, there's nothing in the film to indicate that Mercy would be interested in any young girl under 16. In Mercy's final showdown with George, the latter reveals Childie's abandoned daughter (nearly 16) is "almost old enough to be of interest to you, Mercy dear!" clearly indicating that Mercy's only attracted to young women over the age of consent. (However, lesbianism was practically invisible, legally at the time! There was no lesbian age of consent in the UK, I believe). This indicates that Mercy is indeed (a closeted) lesbian, not a paedophile!
Further, noone could mistake Childie for an actual underage girl, in spite of her regulation 60s babydoll nightie and shelves crammed with dolls. These are intended to identify her as a femme, or baby butch, rather than one whose emotional development is 'arrested'. During a brief scene showing Childie at her place of work (a discount clothes factory) she is clearly seen to be perfectly capable and competent, although her deception and evasiveness with George has an immaturity to it - an aspect which muddies Susannah York's performance, as she also displays moments of sharp insight.
The film's 'killing', suggested by the title, is in fact that of lesbian visibility: Mercy reveals that George's dismissal is due to her "inability to conduct [herself] in a decent, civilised fashion" (ie to 'pass' as straight); during the title sequence, George is seen walking down narrow alleyways, between buildings, already hinting at an erasure of sorts - as though the buildings are trying to crush her, later proving apt, as her character eventually collides with a 'ten-tonne truck'.
Mercy's and Childie's lack of openness about their own sexualities automatically makes them less sympathetic: at least with me. George may be flawed - bullying, self-pitying and a drunk, however her honesty about her sexuality (accosting the nuns, her roleplaying with Childie, her openness about her visiting Gateways, Betty Thaxter etc etc) makes her utterly sympathetic; she has no desire to manipulate others, but enjoys upsetting the hetero norm! Despite the negative ending, we know she'll bounce back (just as on the sound stage she refuses to lie down in the road and 'play' dead): in spite of the humiliation of her providing the voiceover for Clarabelle Cow, I like to think this is proof that she refuses to be silenced! -
fabGirl — 17 years ago(September 07, 2008 05:15 PM)
I love everything you just wrote Crawfordfan! I couldn't have put it better myself. The film is remarkable because George refuses to hide, she is who she and lives her life with remarkable honesty.
I find her one of the most refreshingly three dimensional characters to ever grace a film. She is a beacon of hope in a hostile world!!! -
TheLurkingFox — 16 years ago(April 22, 2009 11:15 AM)
"she has no desire to manipulate others, but enjoys upsetting the hetero norm! Despite the negative ending, we know she'll bounce back (just as on the sound stage she refuses to lie down in the road and 'play' dead): in spite of the humiliation of her providing the voiceover for Clarabelle Cow, I like to think this is proof that she refuses to be silenced!"
I don't agree with you. She has every desire to upset other people, namely Childie. They both are in a pseudo S/M abusive relationship. I say pseudo S/M because real (healthy) S/M relationship have obviously liited boundaries, etc. Here, it looks more like psychological abuse than anything else. She constantly puts Childie down because she suffers from being put down herself (typical bully behaviour) Childie on the other hand is not completely innocent (she IS 32 as mentionned in the movie, and is a willing participant in this abusive relationship, as often) but lets herself put down, even when she does not want to.
On the other side, when it's said "inability to conduct herself in a civilised manner", I don't agree that it refers only to her obvious lesbianism. It's also to do with the fact that indeed she seems to have no understanding of social norms or play. She's unable to conduct herself like an adult. She interrupts people at the bad moment, yells on her girlfriend and insults her in front of everyone, etc etc. She gets drunk all the time, and is a mean drunk.
But why is she like that? You'll have the greatest difficulties to convince me that it is not some homophobic logic behind. Just the way the scene in the bar is filmed you understand from where the movie comes from: It is a film made by a heterosexual man for a (60s) heterosexual public. It is not by chance that she ends up alone, drunk and desperate. (read: The Celluloid Closet by Vito Russo)
In the end, I had heard that The Killing of Sister George and The Boys in the Band were two very homophobic movies made in the late 60s presenting gay people as desperate souls. I saw TBITB, and it went directly in my top 10 of all times movies, and I can argue against anyone who tells me it is homophobic. I tried to have the same take on TKSG, but I couldn't. While TBITB is a gay movie made by a gay man (not Friedkin, but Crowley) with gay people and for gay people (it used to be a play on Broadway), TKSG is a straight movie played by straight actors for a straight audience, and pretending to portray the life of lesbians as it is but failing miserably.
With the newspaper strike on, I wouldn't consider dying! /Bette Davis/
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WarpedRecord — 16 years ago(May 20, 2009 07:23 PM)
I completely agree that this film is a masterpiece and years, perhaps decades, ahead of its time. Homophobic? Hardly! This is a warts-and-all look at an aging star who happens also to be lesbian, not through cause or effect. Her character is completely developed, though she's not very likable. But then again, not every lesbian is. And the scenes in the lesbian bar were an eye-opening look at an era almost lost to history.