Masterpiece
-
Downy1920 — 17 years ago(May 06, 2008 08:10 AM)
frequent focus of Aldrich's was the case of the "outsider." That's what the film is ultimately about - George "didn't fit the machine" as Aldrich stated.
Then he totally messed up with that. George was comfortable in her own skin. She was not an outsider. She had her home, she had her lover, she had her friends, and she had her hangout. Are YOU serious? Totally not in the film I saw.
And Mercy a pedophile? Are you joking?
How is she not? She's obviously not a lesbian. Please explain yourself, or your sense of humor, cause it's falling flat over here.
Moreover ldziub, I'm really particular about calling BS fouls (People who make up stuff or rumors to suit their points). Where did you get your Robert Aldrich information? I would like to read/hear this. On my DVD there isn't a commentary. What format do you have? Or where are you getting your info at? I'm all for learning. -
ldziub — 17 years ago(May 06, 2008 09:24 AM)
Think I'm bluffing? Try educating yourself with either of Alain Silver's studies of Robert Aldrich and his films.
You're quite noble, going about calling out posters about the accuracy of their information. You expose your own confusion and bias with your posts. Read a bit, educate yourself, maybe that will help. -
refurber — 17 years ago(May 07, 2008 08:07 AM)
I am puzzled at the Mercy Croft is a paedophile comment. No she is not, i would say Mercy Croft thought Alice was a youngwoman of at least very early twentys. Alice Mcnaught was never portrayed as a young girl of under 16 years of age THAT would make Mercy a Paedophile.
And also Mercy Croft was a lesbian, a closested lesbian because if she came out she would lose her job and any credibility and power that went with it.
Can i ask, have you watched the same film as the rest of us? Because you have read paedophile in a character that doesnt exist, yet at the same time dismiss the same character as not being a lesbian.
On another note, read one of Coral Brownes Bios, Coral Browne: This effing Lady is a good read , it says in the book that the sex scene was a tag on.
Robert Aldrich said the betrayal had to be shown, hence the sex scene was added that and the fact Beryl Reid refused to do a sex scene. -
Crawfordfan — 17 years ago(June 01, 2008 03:01 PM)
Many of Aldrich's films - specifically those centring on the lives of women (but not exclusively), and which may be classed as revisionist melodramas, often focus upon the misfortunes of celebrity: The Big Knife, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?, and The Legend Of Lylah Clare spring to mind. The Killing of Sister George clearly fits alongside these, with the BBC replacing tinseltown!
I agree Refurber, there's nothing in the film to indicate that Mercy would be interested in any young girl under 16. In Mercy's final showdown with George, the latter reveals Childie's abandoned daughter (nearly 16) is "almost old enough to be of interest to you, Mercy dear!" clearly indicating that Mercy's only attracted to young women over the age of consent. (However, lesbianism was practically invisible, legally at the time! There was no lesbian age of consent in the UK, I believe). This indicates that Mercy is indeed (a closeted) lesbian, not a paedophile!
Further, noone could mistake Childie for an actual underage girl, in spite of her regulation 60s babydoll nightie and shelves crammed with dolls. These are intended to identify her as a femme, or baby butch, rather than one whose emotional development is 'arrested'. During a brief scene showing Childie at her place of work (a discount clothes factory) she is clearly seen to be perfectly capable and competent, although her deception and evasiveness with George has an immaturity to it - an aspect which muddies Susannah York's performance, as she also displays moments of sharp insight.
The film's 'killing', suggested by the title, is in fact that of lesbian visibility: Mercy reveals that George's dismissal is due to her "inability to conduct [herself] in a decent, civilised fashion" (ie to 'pass' as straight); during the title sequence, George is seen walking down narrow alleyways, between buildings, already hinting at an erasure of sorts - as though the buildings are trying to crush her, later proving apt, as her character eventually collides with a 'ten-tonne truck'.
Mercy's and Childie's lack of openness about their own sexualities automatically makes them less sympathetic: at least with me. George may be flawed - bullying, self-pitying and a drunk, however her honesty about her sexuality (accosting the nuns, her roleplaying with Childie, her openness about her visiting Gateways, Betty Thaxter etc etc) makes her utterly sympathetic; she has no desire to manipulate others, but enjoys upsetting the hetero norm! Despite the negative ending, we know she'll bounce back (just as on the sound stage she refuses to lie down in the road and 'play' dead): in spite of the humiliation of her providing the voiceover for Clarabelle Cow, I like to think this is proof that she refuses to be silenced! -
fabGirl — 17 years ago(September 07, 2008 05:15 PM)
I love everything you just wrote Crawfordfan! I couldn't have put it better myself. The film is remarkable because George refuses to hide, she is who she and lives her life with remarkable honesty.
I find her one of the most refreshingly three dimensional characters to ever grace a film. She is a beacon of hope in a hostile world!!! -
TheLurkingFox — 16 years ago(April 22, 2009 11:15 AM)
"she has no desire to manipulate others, but enjoys upsetting the hetero norm! Despite the negative ending, we know she'll bounce back (just as on the sound stage she refuses to lie down in the road and 'play' dead): in spite of the humiliation of her providing the voiceover for Clarabelle Cow, I like to think this is proof that she refuses to be silenced!"
I don't agree with you. She has every desire to upset other people, namely Childie. They both are in a pseudo S/M abusive relationship. I say pseudo S/M because real (healthy) S/M relationship have obviously liited boundaries, etc. Here, it looks more like psychological abuse than anything else. She constantly puts Childie down because she suffers from being put down herself (typical bully behaviour) Childie on the other hand is not completely innocent (she IS 32 as mentionned in the movie, and is a willing participant in this abusive relationship, as often) but lets herself put down, even when she does not want to.
On the other side, when it's said "inability to conduct herself in a civilised manner", I don't agree that it refers only to her obvious lesbianism. It's also to do with the fact that indeed she seems to have no understanding of social norms or play. She's unable to conduct herself like an adult. She interrupts people at the bad moment, yells on her girlfriend and insults her in front of everyone, etc etc. She gets drunk all the time, and is a mean drunk.
But why is she like that? You'll have the greatest difficulties to convince me that it is not some homophobic logic behind. Just the way the scene in the bar is filmed you understand from where the movie comes from: It is a film made by a heterosexual man for a (60s) heterosexual public. It is not by chance that she ends up alone, drunk and desperate. (read: The Celluloid Closet by Vito Russo)
In the end, I had heard that The Killing of Sister George and The Boys in the Band were two very homophobic movies made in the late 60s presenting gay people as desperate souls. I saw TBITB, and it went directly in my top 10 of all times movies, and I can argue against anyone who tells me it is homophobic. I tried to have the same take on TKSG, but I couldn't. While TBITB is a gay movie made by a gay man (not Friedkin, but Crowley) with gay people and for gay people (it used to be a play on Broadway), TKSG is a straight movie played by straight actors for a straight audience, and pretending to portray the life of lesbians as it is but failing miserably.
With the newspaper strike on, I wouldn't consider dying! /Bette Davis/
-
WarpedRecord — 16 years ago(May 20, 2009 07:23 PM)
I completely agree that this film is a masterpiece and years, perhaps decades, ahead of its time. Homophobic? Hardly! This is a warts-and-all look at an aging star who happens also to be lesbian, not through cause or effect. Her character is completely developed, though she's not very likable. But then again, not every lesbian is. And the scenes in the lesbian bar were an eye-opening look at an era almost lost to history.
-
gioconda — 15 years ago(January 18, 2011 10:25 PM)
It really is a masterpiece. Once seen, never forgotten. I've seen it many times, and am always amazed at how unique this movie is, with all the unusual and strongly written characters.
It's a shame it's not more well known. -
MrEdnablackadder — 13 years ago(April 11, 2012 02:13 PM)
This was a fantastic movie indeed and it certainly deserves to be better-known , but , alas , I suppose many would find it too scabrous .
I think the film features one of the greatest female acting trios ever assembled and I would have a really hard time to imagine it with a different cast . Beryl and Coral had originated the roles on stage , so it is natural that they look so perfect . Susannah is utterly magnificent as Childie : frail and delicate like a China doll , George's toy . I doubt Eileen Atkins would have lookied so convincent on film : she's always been too butch and never looked very young . I know that she must have made a different impression on the stage , but here .. come on . Do you think she would have made the same effect as Susannah in a pink baby doll ?