The 4 sequels were pretty crappy, you have to admit
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haristas — 11 years ago(July 21, 2014 09:48 AM)
Since I first saw it in April 1968, when I was just eight, PLANET OF THE APES has been my favorite movie. I remember the two years afterward when there was no sequel as a wonderful time where one's imagination was wonderfully free to speculate on all the mysteries of the movie. Then the sequels came about and tried to answer many of those questions. I was never completely satisfied or even happy with what was proposed by the sequels. It all seemed slapdash and ultimately silly. The original movie had its reputation tarnished by its sequels. In the end, other than make more money for 20th Century Fox, that's been the lasting legacy of the '70s APES sequels (and the two TV series), they turned an intriguing concept and made it silly kid fare. The ultimate result of that, the disaster know as the 2001 "re-imagining" directed by Tim Burton. These new reboot films have so far been more clever and intelligent than the '70s sequels, but I have to wonder if that will last.
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JoeKarlosi — 11 years ago(July 21, 2014 09:54 AM)
There is all kinds of bloodshed, killing, and torture, in BENEATH, ESCAPE and CONQUEST that is not "silly kid fare". You know what I'm talking about. Only BATTLE could be accused of being "child friendly", and yet I still think it's got much to offer and is underrated. You and I apparently were only born two years apart, but I loved the sequels. I feel you lost out by not enjoying them. It's one thing to have been born too late, but you've got no such excuse.
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savagebiscuits — 11 years ago(July 21, 2014 11:26 AM)
These new reboot films have so far been more clever and intelligent than the '70s sequels, but I have to wonder if that will last.
I can't say I agree with this at all. Sure, there are some silly things that go on in the sequels to the original film, things that I'd normally rail against, but I do think that the story, social commentary and general points that they tell far surpass even the latest films (well, Rise, for I haven't yet seen Dawn so maybe I'm mistaken there). For me, Rise raises some commentary, but it seems fairly safe and non-threatening, less radical and more watered down, less insightful than the past films of the '70s. In some ways, I don't see too much difference between Rise and Burton's flawed film, at least on the social commentary level.
However, I generally liked Rise, I think in some ways it's an improvement and has used the technology in a way that has allowed primitive apes to look like apes rather than men in masks, removing an incongruity that took some out of the story (not me). Still, I actually feel more for the originals and believe them to speak of the ills of society in a better and stronger way. -
JoeKarlosi — 11 years ago(July 21, 2014 01:28 PM)
they tell far surpass even the latest films (well, Rise, for I haven't yet seen Dawn so maybe I'm mistaken there). For me, Rise raises some commentary, but it seems fairly safe and non-threatening, less radical and more watered down, less insightful than the past films of the '70s. In some ways, I don't see too much difference between Rise and Burton's flawed film, at least on the social commentary level.
I think you'll find the social commentary thing REALLY is pounded home in DAWN. I hope you may see it soon I've seen it twice, and on a purely objective level I must say it's probably technically the second best Apes movie after the 1968 film.
Still, I actually feel more for the originals and believe them to speak of the ills of society in a better and stronger way.
DAWN -
savagebiscuits — 11 years ago(July 28, 2014 08:42 AM)
I think you'll find the social commentary thing REALLY is pounded home in DAWN. I hope you may see it soon I've seen it twice, and on a purely objective level I must say it's probably technically the second best Apes movie after the 1968 film.
Well, I saw it on Saturday, so will respond to this. Yes, there was a bit more social commentary in this film than in Rise, but I still don't think it compares to the social commentary in the original film and its sequels. Heck, I still think it's only just better with the social commentary than Burton's film, and that was watered down a lot (Dawn is still a lot better than Burton's film, though). So, no, I still think that the later films seem to be emasculated to some degree and don't want to rock the boat too much when it comes to politics and social commentary, etc. What's said is safe Hollywood fare, rather than the pushing the envelope politics of the original films, which starkly made their points with passion.
However, saying all that, I did quite enjoy Dawn for what it was. It suffers from the usual issue in the later films (including Burton's) that the human characters are a bit underwritten and bland (although I didn't mind Franco's and Lithgow's in Rise or Clarke's in Dawn, but the rest). The villains tend to be one-dimensional; no Zaiuses or Hassleins here. The ending of Dawn
is a bit well, underwhelming compared to the original films' knife in the guts endings
(spoiler tags just to make sure). There's a end of credits moment that'll make you groan (
sounds of what appears to be Koba coming back for thirds
). But, even with those, I did find the story engaging, the ape characters fleshed out, it had some good emotional moments (maybe not to Rise's level, but it was there), and I suppose the CGI work looked great (I'm not that fussed about that kind of thing, though, even if I do think that it was the correct route to take for showing primitive apes). Mind you, it lacked the satire of the originals. So, despite caveats, I quite liked this, but wouldn't put it as my second choice, more like fourth or fifth (competing with Beneath), with Rise just behind it. -
JoeKarlosi — 11 years ago(July 28, 2014 08:48 AM)
I quite liked this, but wouldn't put it as my second choice, more like fourth or fifth (competing with Beneath), with Rise just behind it.
I just wanted to clarify that I placed DAWN second in terms of being objective in a "cinematic" sense; if I were going to list my "personal favorites", both RISE and DAWN would fall below the original five Apes movies. -
savagebiscuits — 11 years ago(July 28, 2014 08:55 AM)
I just wanted to clarify that I placed DAWN second in terms of being objective in a "cinematic" sense; if I were going to list my "personal favorites", both RISE and DAWN would fall below the original five Apes movies.
Hmm fair enough. Maybe we can bridge the gap on that type of appreciation. -
decmcg — 11 years ago(July 21, 2014 03:29 PM)
Taking into consideration the time period they were made, the filmatic limitations of the times as compared with today, the sequence of how and when each was produced and released and the general merits individually and overall I have to say it's one of the finest movie series (when it comes to sequels and as a whole) in film.
The original is such a brave, ground-breaking movie it will forever remain THE classic of the franchise (modern-day remakes and reboots included)"Beneath" is too-much-a-rethread, but has its moments "Escape" in its (SO clever) simplicity, focus on character, sentiment and success-in-execution stands out big-time in its own way "Conquest" as both a thrill and a triumph is so thoroughly satisfying and well ahead of its day while "Battle" admittedly (undoubtedly due to a terribly low budget and weak premise) is a bit of a lame ending to the original series
BUT add them all together and you get something really special!! Sequels-writer Paul Dehn methinks deserves credit for this most of all. -
phillipsdan83 — 11 years ago(October 06, 2014 08:49 AM)
I must disagree with savagebiscuits about the lack of real villains in DAWN OF THE PLANET OF THE APES. It has one: Koba. He increasingly lets hatred, distrust, and lust for power get the better of him. It's his actions that sour the relationship between ape and man to the point of no return.
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savagebiscuits — 11 years ago(October 06, 2014 09:46 AM)
Koba was fairly one-dimensional, standard fare and a bit cliched. Not a terrible villain and I did find some interest in him, but he's hardly of the calibre and complexity that was present in Doctor Zaius and Doctor Otto Hasslein's characterisations.
Dawn is a reasonable film, but I just felt it a bit emasculated compared to most of the original series, and that was also reflected in the stock villain.
