Sorry if this point has already been raised.
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — Teorema
DC1977 — 16 years ago(August 29, 2009 06:10 AM)
Sorry if this point has already been raised.
Apparently there is a difference of opinions on the Visitor, some say he is God, some say the Devil. To me he is obviously God, proven by the maid's 'holiness' later in the film. The maid is the only one who seems to immediately understand the nature of the Visitor and she is clearly devout and moved by his presence.
Her appreciation of the Visitor and her later transformation would be impossible if the Visitor was the Devil. -
zaragozana — 16 years ago(September 18, 2009 04:07 PM)
I think your point about the maid is a good one, but some of the other characters seem to misuse or misunderstand the change of perspective given to them; as if they missed the point. The mother for example picks up strange men; the young girl grieves his parting and goes insane. So the transformation can also be interpreted as a negative thing and makes the visitor ambiguous.
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ofelia72 — 16 years ago(December 11, 2009 12:34 AM)
You might say that the Visitor is "God", but in the sense of "Sacred" (see also the interview to Pasolini, in English, which is linked to in some threads in this section).
The (negative, you might say) influence that he has on most of the characters is not a reflection of his being Evil, but of the incapacity of the Borgeousie to deal with something which does not fit within its frame of mind and conventions.
The "Sacred" as "Nature" (a theme which pervades many of Pasolini's movies, see for example The Trilogy of Life). Pasolini's work is pervaded by the nostalgia for a more "natural" state that men have lost the capacity to live, nowadays.
In "Teorema" the Visitor does nothing to attract the other characters. He simply IS. Outside of their world, lifestyle, conventions.
They try to bring him towards them, inside of them, in the only way they can think of, but they fail. They also try with a desperate appeal (emotional blackmail) when he announces his departure (all except the Maid, significantly) but again, they fail. He cannot be "normalised" , turned into another one of them, another bourgeois, he is free. And this is unacceptable, and utterly disruptive for their lives.
In my view Pasolini's work is always fascinating, so disturbingly "different", even when one cannot be sure to comprehend fully what he meant. But I am also convinced that knowing at least a bit more about his views, his body of work (including books, articles, etc.) helps to appreciate his movies better.
For me, a genius. Sorely missed.
(sorry, I've probably gone OT!) -
The_Coma-Man — 16 years ago(February 19, 2010 02:16 PM)
The film, to me, is about the absence of god. If he is a messenger of god or just one of his "angels", or if he's just a normal person - what is important is that due to the lack of this person (let's assume he is god), the family is thrown into torment, and each of them deals with it in a different way.
The scene with the Bacon-pictures says a lot: the three tablets the son finds particularly interesting show three beings grieving below the cross - Bacon intended the three to accompany a larger picture of a cross. Pretty telling, IMO.
VOTE JACOB'S LADDER INTO THE TOP 250's!!!
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0099871 -
Meinster — 15 years ago(September 12, 2010 09:20 AM)
I think he is the Greek god Dionysus who, as in Euripides' play 'The Bacchae', has temporarily set aside his godhead and assumed mortal form. Dionysus is beautiful, he does not discriminate (hence the Visitor sleeps with all the characters irrespective of sex or attractiveness), he is the god of letting go, he sets people free; one of his cult names is the Liberator. At the end of the film, the father is in a state of Bacchic frenzy
For many people the freedom Dionysus offers is intolerable, and so his coming and departure cause chaos, both here and in Euripides.
I admit this does not fit in with some of the Christian imagery in the film, but I do not see how the Visitor can be a Christian deity. For Christianity, only heterosexual sex within marriage is acceptable.
As for the Devilwell, Lucifer is traditionally portrayed as a beautiful young man, but would he prevent the maid from committing suicide? If he were the devil, surely his coming would, ultimately, have a negative impact on all the characters?
Of course, this is all probably just the product of my overheated imagination -
Brennan-8 — 14 years ago(June 14, 2011 09:03 AM)
"If he were the devil, surely his coming would, ultimately, have a negative impact on all the characters?"
Ultimately, his impact was entirely negative, no? The maid buries herself alive, and even the red-headed boy artist seems to be in such a fractured state that he's practically schizophrenic. You can't imagine him communicating with another person, not even thru his work. He's obsessed and utterly desperate. The father is driven mad, arguably. The mom and daughter are destroyed.
Pasolini addressed this aspect of the film in a '68 interview with the NYTimes:
http://www.moviecrazed.com/outpast/pasolini.html -
rtms1988 — 14 years ago(July 25, 2011 05:34 PM)
GOD wouldn't do what that bastard had done and many people prays the Devil, with no regret I would reconize GOD if really was, but He isn't there. Not in a single frame.
Roberta Trevisan
"
Film lovers are sick people
"
"
Till The Angels Say Amen
" -
Krustallos — 14 years ago(November 07, 2011 05:12 AM)
I agree with this:
The influence that he has on most of the characters is not a reflection of his being Evil, but of the incapacity of the Borgeousie to deal with something which does not fit within its frame of mind and conventions.
I suspect it's a mistake to try and pin the character down to a single meaning like "god". The film shows how bourgeois power structures work with particular reference to the nuclear family and how the addition and then subtraction of the stranger disrupts those structures.
As a Marxist, Pasolini should in theory have been an atheist (although my understanding is that things were a little more complicated with him), so putting God into his film might be considered a little unlikely - unless he's referring to the
idea
of God and the role that idea plays in bourgeois psychology.
I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity. -
cesarat37 — 14 years ago(November 24, 2011 05:24 AM)
Yes, Stamp's character is God, most probably. I think Pasolini was trying to portray "The Visitor" as a divine force which made the members of the family become their true self (that is, who they really are or would like to be), instead of playing a "role" in a repressed and upper-class society.
This is why the maid becomes a saint, the mother promiscuous and the father gives the factory to the workers and shows some gay tendencies; the influence of the Visitor has anulled all their repressions, fears, etc., and know they are showing who they REALLY ARE, their true spirit. Pasolini despised the bourgeoisie, so that's why the father, mother, daughter and son go crazy in the end; they can't cope with this situation of being true to themselves. -
Melville49 — 14 years ago(January 30, 2012 12:07 AM)
From Pasolini himself:
http://www.moviecrazed.com/outpast/pasolini.html
"I leave it to the spectatoris the visitor God or is he the Devil? He is not Christ. The important thing is that he is sacred, a supernatural being. He is something from beyond."
"the conclusion of the story is negative because the characters live the experience but are not capable of understanding and resolving it. This is the lesson of the movie the bourgeoisie have lost the sense of the sacred, and so they cannot solve their own lives in a religious way. But the servant is a peasant, really a person from another era, a pre-industrial era. That is why she is the only one who recognizes the visitor as God, why she alone does not rebuke him when he must leave."
Very much like Peter Weir's early Aussie films -
goldenboi — 14 years ago(March 30, 2012 05:18 AM)
I have watched Teorema many times and I am convinced the Visitor is a metaphor or analogy for an experience of the divine or spiritual. Because each individual is different, their response to that experience is different. The frustration of trying to explain to oneself and the recapture of such an experience is what I believe Pasolini to be showing. Each of the family members (I include the maid) invite the experience by some action and then each one responds. It is my opinion that Pasolini felt the peasants of his Italy led the most spiritual lives, which is why the maid, in effect, becomes a saint finally having herself buried to allow her tears to become a spring of water. The son's reaction seems to be attempt the expression through his painting and ultimately understands art must fall short in its communication. One can view the outright failure of the other members because they have no "preparation" for such an experience.
Pasolini's life was a constant attempt to express himself; indeed, he is quoted by his friend Giuseppe Zigaina (a painter) as saying, "Express yourself and die or live unexpressed and immortal."
If we turn back now, we'll have more to face than man-eating plants. -
Errington_92 — 13 years ago(December 05, 2012 06:42 AM)
I saw him as a out-worldly figure who used his presence to break the family away from the traditions of society and form themselves into a new identity for their own sake, although to an extent this failed.
"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not".