Ironic Irishman.
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Koncorde — 19 years ago(May 06, 2006 04:37 PM)
Oh aye, Richard came out rather badly - on the other side of the coin is of course Banquo (from Macbeth) who, after historically being party to the murder of Duncan, was 'edited' to be a brave and noble and die an ignonimous death with Fleance.
The reason?
His family ended up producing James VI of Scotland - better known as James I of England who happened to be on the throne at the time Shakespokingstick was writing the aforementioned play.
It pays not to criticise your Kings great great great great great great great grandfather (though reputedly the Banquo link was disproved, the play is still very much Macduff = superhero bringing the true thanes of Scotland to power, Stuarts obviously). -
Colkitto — 16 years ago(July 13, 2009 06:37 AM)
Well,
in Holinshed
he's party to the murder of Duncan. In ACTUAL history Banquo almost certainly didn't exist. "Fleance" is a vague recollection of Flaald of Dol, a Breton whose descendants just happened to settle in Scotland.
Shakespeare does nod towards his sources though, when he makes Banquo pray: "Merciful powers, / Restrain me in the cursed thoughts that nature / Gives way to in repose": he's obviously
tempted
to murder Duncan, but he manages to resist - and doesn't have to resist very long, since Macbeth does the job for him!
"An inglorious peace is better than a dishonourable war" ~ John Adams
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Sid-Blitzen — 19 years ago(October 09, 2006 07:57 AM)
"Thank god he died when he did- otherwise he could have had the same terrible effect on history Mr Hitler did 300 years later"
Cromwell would have had to do considerably more damage than he did, in order to be up there with Hitler. Cromwell's ambitions were nothing like as far-reaching. -
Sid-Blitzen — 19 years ago(February 12, 2007 06:14 AM)
"I'm disgusted that the movie portrays him as a hero and especially disgusted that he was played as a hero by an irishman"
To some, he is a hero. Thanks to him, the power of monarchy in Britain was considerably curtailed.
And surely the true sign of a talented actor is that they can play any kind of character, even those who might be repulsive to some? -
tenkisoratoti — 19 years ago(April 03, 2007 05:00 AM)
'Irish Victim Machine'
A fitting title.
Ireland should try looking at other Empire's history and then think how lucky they are to even exist. If Britain was anything like France, Russia, Germany, Turkey, etc Ireland would probably be a Bosnia.
The stories of butchery by Cromwell are vastly exagerated, made up my envious Irishmen who couldn't stand the fact that they had been beaten and conquered. -
ExGreenBeret — 18 years ago(April 16, 2007 09:24 AM)
The stories of butchery by Cromwell are vastly exagerated, made up my envious Irishmen who couldn't stand the fact that they had been beaten and conquered.
Dear God, a living eyewitness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A man who owns a gun is a CITIZEN. A man who does not is a SUBJECT.
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tempest2003 — 18 years ago(June 22, 2007 06:17 AM)
From 1649 to 1652, one-third of the population of Ireland was destroyed.FACT!!!!!
Even English historians say, 660,000 Irish people were killed, Twenty thousand Irish boys and girls were sold into slavery to the West Indies. The Irish peasant farmers that survived were forced to pay rent to their usurpers. Once prosperous home grown industries were also destroyed because they competed with British factories.
so its all just a huge coincidence Oliver Cromwell was there between those times right??? -
Sid-Blitzen — 18 years ago(June 25, 2007 05:45 AM)
"You should be glad you're attached to us because anywhere else you would have been permanently annexed centuries before"
Er, why should we be happy about getting annexed by anyone? Irish anti-Englishness is a result of English anti-Irishness. -
aengusbrady — 18 years ago(October 05, 2007 11:07 AM)
the scatty little comments left by cromwell's descendants contained in this thread bear an echo of his deathstalk through timehe is to the Irish of that era and this, what 20th Century Europe's dictators are to vast swathes of Europe.
Britains tyrnanny was defeated and its Empire shattereda crappy Commonwealth of pomp is all the Brits have to celebrate - pathetic -
Gaodhal — 16 years ago(October 26, 2009 05:08 PM)
"Ireland should try looking at other Empire's history and then think how lucky they are to even exist. If Britain was anything like France, Russia, Germany, Turkey, etc Ireland would probably be a Bosnia."
Sorry Professor but your knowledge of history is lacking.
There are few cases in the history of imperialism in Europe to match the violence, destruction and degredation which the Irish suffered under English rule. Murder, pillage, sackings, rape, ethnic cleansing, plantation, slavery, degredation and destruction of culture and language, the introduction of religious strife which plagues Ireland to this day, penal laws, famine etc etc etc.
A record which would shame the Ottoman Turks.
Repugnant as foreign rule is we would have been better off under virtually any other country in Europe.
Compare the experience of any other ocupied nation - the Bohemians under Austrian rule or the Finns under Swedish then Russian control. Even the Greeks under Muslim Turkish domination came out of it better than Ireland.
As the most supremely arrogant and self-righteous crowd of people on the face of this planet I would never expect anything approaching a recognition of this, much less contrition, from you but the simple, plain FACTS of history will always remain unchanged.
-Nl aon scilen mar do scilen fin.- -
llareggub — 16 years ago(March 14, 2010 06:05 AM)
"Britains tyrnanny was defeated and its Empire shattereda crappy Commonwealth of pomp is all the Brits have to celebrate - pathetic"
The tyranny (Might be worth using a spellchecker if you are functionally illiterate, like most Bogtrotters) of British Democracy has been defeated by being the only standard of government to which the entire world aspires. The Empire was shattered in it's magnificent resistance to Fascism, Nazism & Japanese Militarism, all at once. Those of us in the Crappy Commonwealth are proud as punch to have stood beside The Empire from the beginning of that mighty fight for liberty. The Yanks didn't have the guts until later, the Bogtrotters never had the guts. No-one can ask Harris now, but I suspect his playing a complex character like Cromwell was the beginning of the journey that led to his renouncing the IRA after Harrod's; and realising the enormous debt the Irish, indeed the entire world owes to British governance.
I am proud to be an Aussie, but I am even more proud to be part of that great family, the Crappy British Commonwealth, the name being first used by a strange, misguided but brilliant Englishman- Oliver Cromwell.