ending was terrible
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Darcsyde01 — 14 years ago(November 03, 2011 11:24 PM)
I saw you said something similar on another thread, but never expressed your opinion on what you feel the ending was.
I feel the ending was ambiguous and I'm from the old school when it comes to movies. (no "digital boys suckled on HALO and Grand Theft Auto" here.
So what is you opinion? And Dr. Lecter once said, "Thrill me with your acumen">
D. v~~v -
ta2me92704 — 14 years ago(November 19, 2011 10:58 PM)
Prepare to be thrilled
Valdez is in a much stronger position than Tanner thinks. El Segundo has caught him and after their conversation, respects Valdez much more than just moments ago (the respect began when he found the snipers nest and realized that Valdez was a lot more than he seemed). The deeper El Segundo gets into the situation the more he realizes what a complete @sshole Tanner is, how completely wrong Tanner is, and how completely right Vadez is. El Segundo is so convinced of this that he even calls off his men, saying in effect, "I've got no dog in this fight, you're on your own, Tanner."
At that point it's a 1 on 1 between Tanner and Valdez, and it's not at all wrong to say that Tanner is a coward, that's the reason he even has El Segundo and his men. Tanner knows he's on his own, knows he can't beat Valdez, knows he's lost, and knows he's about to die, so he takes the only option open to him.
He pays the $100.
The thorn defends the rose, yet it is peaceful and does not seek conflict. -
ta2me92704 — 14 years ago(November 20, 2011 10:08 PM)
My pleasure.
This film has so many great moments, great scenes that are almost greater than the sum of their parts; Valdez tailoring his loads for the specific range, the sniper shots that sound like jet planes, the 6 inch move the woman ("Gay Erin") makes when told to move out of the line of fire, then "A little more", and finally arguably the best line in the film when El Segundo asks Valdez when was he an Indian hunter and Valdez answers wearily with a burden of guilt, "Before I know better."
This is just a very under rated film
P.S. If you think about it, killing Tanner is nowhere near the ratfk, the payback, the Karmic justice that humiliating him is. He would never live down that humiliation, and there are a ton of witnesses to spread the word. "Tanner's a coward" "He backed down" "Valdez squeezed Tanner's balls and made him pay".
Tanner died a thousand times.
P.P.S. (next morning, and these comments are about the last act, after Valdez dons his old uniform) Another thought, think of the game that's being played by both men. Essentially they both are playing cat and mouse, but one is an amateur and one is a seasoned pro. The game is dominated by Valdez, but in such a way that Tanner thinks HE is winning, not Valdez. Every move Tanner makes he thinks he is getting stronger and Valdez weaker, when in fact it is exactly the opposite. That is pretty subtle and deliberate screenwriting
The thorn defends the rose, yet it is peaceful and does not seek conflict. -
TheBeardedWonder — 14 years ago(November 30, 2011 11:54 AM)
Well said! And I agree, once El Sogundo was out of the fight, Tanner knew Valdez had him dominated. He paid up.
Also really enjoyed the Jesus symbolism throughout the movie (Valdez is tied to a cross, stabbed through the wrist, literally stabbed in the back [like Judas figuratively did to Jesus], there were even more I caught while watching that I can't recall now). GREAT western!
Thoughts? -
rogerscorpion — 11 years ago(April 09, 2014 04:25 AM)
I haven't read the book, but I'll bet the Burt did. I'll bet this is exactly the way the book ended.
I think this would never have been madeif not for The Burt.
I saw this during it's original release. The one-sheet is seared into my brain.
I agree with everything you said. You put it far more eruditely, that I would have, though.
I loved the conversation, between El Segundo & Bob.
I loved the last lines of Hector Elizondo's screen debut.
'Valdez is coming'.
Carpe Noctem! -
lukejbarnett — 5 years ago(October 05, 2020 01:49 AM)
rally this is hector elizondo's movie debut? he looks so old in this movie even and he was like 30 in it. geez maybe its' the beard mostly. he looks weathered and pretty old.
he got to share a scene with burt lanchaster so that's historic and cool for him.
lukejbarnett -
jtfriday2000 — 13 years ago(July 13, 2012 09:10 AM)
oddly enough, that was my take on it, but without concrete evidence, and knowing Hollywood and it's ability to throw reason out the window.it could have gone either way.
I find this message ridiculous. People complain about Hollywood movies "spoonfeeding" every little detail to the audience. But when Hollywood movies try to be ambiguous, they complain the movies are too ambiguous and are unable to come to their own conclusion "without concrete evidence". Small wonder Hollywood seems to make movies that look down the intelligence of the average moviegoer. Because the average moviegoer seems to complain about everything.
My sig: why do almost all movies on imdb have a "worst movie ever!" thread? -
lukejbarnett — 5 years ago(October 05, 2020 01:43 AM)
that was a very unfulfilling ending. geez so empty and stupid and boring. they just stand there, the end. one of the worst endings to a movie eve.
oh yeah, what about hector elonzido. lol. he looks hispanic in this movie though.
lukejbarnett