This post contains spoiler for those who care
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Jasons_Argonaut — 13 years ago(July 16, 2012 06:43 AM)
but the Devil's as we undertand him is a prooduct of the Judeo- Christian tradition, outside of that, there is no Devil.
I think you miss my point that the devil has become something more than just the strict Judeo-Christian depiction. The idea that, whatever one's personal belief states, that there is a God of some sort and a devil of some sort out thereperhaps that no religion has gotten rightcould be the reality. That is why I mentioned The Omen, as it does not subscribe to Christianity as much as it does to something unknown that has elements of truth taken from Christianity, among other things. -
FishHeadSweety — 19 years ago(November 03, 2006 02:47 PM)
If I remember correctly, the priest crosses himself backwards, right to left. that's how I knew he wasn't a real priest, but evil. It would help support your Satan theory. It's a good theory. I'll keep it in mind next time I watch the movie.
What's even freakier is I was going to suggest to you on the Horror Hotel board that we come rag on Horror Express. I was just going to say what a funny, furry alien the monster was. You seemed to get more out of it.
Talk to you later.
"You've been listening to music for old invalids"Little Shop of Horrors -
TheSomberlain — 17 years ago(January 23, 2009 12:58 AM)
There's a potential problem with your idea about the crossing. In Orthodox Christianity, priests do cross themselves from right to left. I believe that the filmmakers were Spanish (meaning that they would have grown up in a devoutly Catholic culture whatever their own views were), so maybe they weren't aware of this fact, which would mean that your point would still stand.
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FishHeadSweety — 17 years ago(January 24, 2009 01:50 PM)
Since writing my original post, I've noticed in other movies Russian Orthodox characters seem to cross themselves right to left. So now I'm not so sure I can tell evil characters by right to left crossing any more.
Ask a fish head anything you want to, they won't answer. They can't talk. -
Jasons_Argonaut — 15 years ago(December 13, 2010 10:04 PM)
I would just like to point out that you guys should watch John Carpenter's "Prince of Darkness" for a movie about Satan being an alien force
Oh, I have seen that film. I like it quite a bit. I had forgotten about it, though, until recently when I revisited in on a John Carpenter DVD that collected it and three other films. It does indeed share similarities on the level of Satan being an alien.
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Jasons_Argonaut — 17 years ago(June 12, 2008 01:41 PM)
"I think the film is implying that Satan was an alien, so technically the creature was "Satan""
That is actually a great thought. We already discussed in this thread the fact that religious people would apply their religious beliefs to that which they do not understand, hence thinking this "alien" was indeed Satan. Maybe this creature is indeed Satanor the basis upon which our ideas of Satan are based?? This idea can go back to the realm of logic that religion has a basis in alien visitations from the beginning.
I am religious myself, so I am not trying to offend with these thoughts. I am merely thinking along the context of what this film offers us. Thanks for all of your thoughts, gentlemen. Further discussion is most welcome. -
bladewrecker — 17 years ago(April 07, 2008 06:22 AM)
I think it was just an alien trapped on Earth thousands/millions of years ago, and has been moving from body to body, in an attempt tosurvive and ultimatly gain knowledge that would get it home.
You could think of it as a kind of mix between.The Thing From Outer Space and Invasion Of The Body Snatchers. -
shotgunnergauge5150 — 17 years ago(May 06, 2008 01:43 AM)
Also the creature seemed to gain greater power and abilities from entering Father Pujardov.Heck,he even raised a small milita of the dead to fight for him.If I am not mistaken doesn
t Hell literarly mean a seperation from GOD? My theory is that the creature was Satan cast down from Heaven in his Spirt form.As I also seem to recall that Satan was said to travel to and fro,all over the Earth.The passangers on the train were the first humans it had ever encountered.It didnt know,understand or care if people wanted to worship him.He is Damned and only wishes to regain Heaven.With this information and that of Jasons Argonauts coments my belief is yes,the creature represented Satan. "Its 3:45 AM 5/6/08 Primary Election morning here in Indiana".. -
hanfuzzy — 17 years ago(July 12, 2008 10:36 PM)
Two major points would rule out this being Satan, at least the "Satan" of Judeo-Christian-Muslim scripture.
- He had been frozen in stone for a few million years. That means he had missed out the entire existance of humanity - since before there were even walking apes. Therefore, he could neither be a literal being appearing to the scriptural characters (if you are a literalist), nor would he be the inspiration for some kind of symbolic cultural memory of Satan, as he'd been out of the picture since long before language or symbols would exist to even describe him vaguely. (2 million years goes back before apes to monkey-like human ancestors - assuming you accept the fossil record and its evidence for evolution, which some religious people don't. If you fall into that latter group, then I can't really have a serious discussion about this with you because the answer would just be "whatever the Bible says".)
- If he were the Judeo-Christian-Muslim, the ruler of Hell - all flames and such - he could hardly be destroyed by a flaming train, could he?
You might call him Satanic, in that he has many of the attributes ascribed to Satan by those religions. But it would only be a coincidence, and would not rule out other creatures, either alien or supernatural, also having Satanic traits. So you can't consider him to be "the" Satan, just something that coincidentally resembles some of the powers and characteristics ascribed to Satan.
Of course, he did say that there had been others of his kind who had left him behind. If that were true (and not just a lie), then perhaps one of these others returned while he was frozen and hung around the Middle East during Biblical times inspiring the Satan myth. If so, then our Horror Express baddie could be considered to be the brother or cousin of "Satan" - AND an alien. That lets both sides of the debate be true, pretty much.
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Jasons_Argonaut — 17 years ago(August 04, 2008 05:26 PM)
Thanks for your very well presented thought, hanfuzzy! I like the idea that this creaturewhatever it may be, inspired the ideas of the devil that seem to permeate various religions. We had already came to this conclusion earlier in the thread, but I think it is the best outcome and one that pretty much satisfies everyone. Thanks again for your post!
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TheSomberlain — 17 years ago(January 23, 2009 01:07 AM)
Toward the end of the film, if I recall correctly, the creature, in the form of Father Pujardov, refers to himself as "one of the fallen," which would seem to me to mean that he was not Satan, but one of the many lesser angels who rebelled with Satan against God in biblical lore. This might explain why he did not have the type of great influence traditionally ascribed to Satan himself.
When he tries to portray himself as an alien to Dr. Saxton, my inclination is to think that he is attempting to manipulate Saxton into thinking that he could be valuable to science and that sparing him for such a purpose could give Saxton the glory as a discoverer that was denied to him when the creature was released. I took it as though the Pujardov monster is trying to speak to Saxton in a language that he understands, with that language being science. -
lauriescreams — 14 years ago(April 15, 2011 05:48 AM)
You recall incorrectly. The creature says that it was a form of energy that visited Earth with others of its kind but was left behind by accident. That said, the entity is addressing a man of science, so one could speculate that the creature was lying in order to tempt him with "secrets of science."
But I find arguments for the creature being extra-terrestrial much more convincing.
For me, the greatest argument to the entity being extra-terrestrial and not satanic is the fact that it says to the monk: "There is nothing in your head of any use." To the entity, the monk's metaphysical babble is not worth the effort of sucking out of his head. It goes after thieves, spies, and most of all, scientists - it even asks one if it is possible to conquer gravity. When the scientist replies that it is theoretically possible and mentions a mentor who has ideas about rockets, it sucks him dry. This makes me think that the entity is an extra-terrestrial ultimate goal is simply to find its way back home. -
!!!deleted!!! (1688273) — 14 years ago(April 25, 2011 07:05 AM)
The creature has nothing but time and could prey upon more victims for another century (or longer) to get what he wants. He must have seen the potential that the industrial age offered him, compared with the millennia of slumming in small vertebrates in the prehistoric ages. For all his cunning, the creature did not have much technical expertise; he reminded me of a person who wants to drive an exotic sports car but has little idea of how it works. But he is willing to "learn".
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Jasons_Argonaut — 14 years ago(December 29, 2011 07:26 PM)
All very fascinating ideas. The creature was not "Satan". It would be seen as that from a religious point of view. It is a creature trying to gain knowledge to return to whether it came from, in "Hell", "Space", or wherever it was supposed to come from.
The film does have the idea of "Satan trying to get back into Heaven", though. And is stopped when sent "back into the flames".
Hmmm, very religious symbolism.
Oh yes, it has very heavy religious symbolism and that is what makes it such a fascinating topic to discuss and debate. Did you read the conclusions we came to earlier in the thread that, since this alien had been around since the beginning of time on Earth, that it or those like it may have possibly been a part of what inspired religion altogether? Purjardov mentions that it arrived here with others, and that is all we really know. It was left behind accidentally (so it says), but what if it was really left behind on purpose? What if the others were, for lack of a better descriptor, good, while this one was, for lack of a better descriptor, evil? It sort of reminds me of the episode of Star Trek The Next Generation,
"Skin of Evil"
where a race of creatures of light cast off their bad elements and left it behind on a planet. What if the other aliens Purjardov mentions were the ones who inspired the ideas of god, and the legend of this one served as the inspiration for Satan? Yes, I am just throwing ideas out there, but it's fun to think about none the less! -
syndicate-7 — 13 years ago(June 06, 2012 07:07 PM)
to answer your question:
saxton: "who are you?"
pujardov: "in words it is difficult :"
i am a form of energy: occupying this shell.
saxton: where do you come from?
pujardov:
another galaxy. i came with others like myself. i was left behind: an accident..
(take the rest from there) -
Jasons_Argonaut — 13 years ago(June 08, 2012 08:28 PM)
As I already clearly stated in my OP,
Naturally, the scientific Dr. Saxton theorizes that it is a creature from another world who inhabits human "host" bodies, one who visited many ages ago and survived being buried till present day 1906 (the film's setting). Dr. Saxton revealed his theory to the Inspector after he was possessed by the being, thus it makes perfect sense that the creature would play on this notion in an attempt to get Dr. Saxton to let it go.
See, your effort, while a quote from the film, really adds nothing to the question I asked since I covered this already. So in a sense, you didn't answer my question at all.