What if Michael's mother asked him to spare Fredo?
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Archived from the IMDb Discussion Forums — The Godfather: Part II
joannabaroncelli — 10 years ago(July 17, 2015 08:37 AM)
I know that Michael had instructed that nothing happen to Fredo while their mother was alive but I wonder if Mrs. Vito Corelone had found out about Michael's plan to kill Fredo and she had asked him please not to for the sake of the family would he have honored her request and not gone ahead with the hit?
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Stevicus-2 — 10 years ago(July 18, 2015 05:51 AM)
I know that Michael had instructed that nothing happen to Fredo while their mother was alive but I wonder if Mrs. Vito Corelone had found out about Michael's plan to kill Fredo and she had asked him please not to for the sake of the family would he have honored her request and not gone ahead with the hit?
Given what we know about Michael, I tend to think that he still would have gone through with the hit on Fredo. Fredo's betrayal was pretty severe and could have led to Michael's death. I'm doubtful that Mama Corleone would have even made such a request. -
sonofbeach-sheet — 10 years ago(July 18, 2015 12:05 PM)
What would have been really funny is what if Michael's mother had lived to be in her 90's, instead of conveniently dying off in her early 60's (life expectancy back then)? Think about it: having Fredo finally get killed for his mistake in his 60's, LOL.
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OptimumTaurus — 10 years ago(July 18, 2015 01:22 PM)
Wouldn't be considered too funny. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Remember it took years before the Corleones took revenge on Carlo and Barzini.
Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgment.
-Michael Corleone -
duckofprey — 10 years ago(November 26, 2015 05:59 PM)
Caught the don completely off guard!
don C was so mentally diminished at this point that the ol' "got your nose!" trick with the thumb between your index and middle fingers would have caught him off-guard. -
Fiery_Boycs — 9 years ago(October 25, 2016 11:27 PM)
Given the mellowing in Michael's character by the time of Part III, which takes place about 20 years after Part II, then I'm fairly confident he would have rescinded the hit.
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ShaeBlue — 10 years ago(July 29, 2015 10:38 PM)
Interesting question. Michael's mom was old school. As a result I don't think there was any way she would ever be that close to the details of Michael's plan to even learn about what he wanted to do to Fredo. For her that was not a woman's place, but if she had heard rumors of such a plan then she might have reacted to them the same way Connie did in part III which is to completely dismiss it as something that would never have happened. After all Connie always believed Fredo drowned. So basically I don't think Michael would have had to change course because of his mother. However, if by chance his mother had asked him to spare Fredo I would like to believe he would have.
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puirt-a-beul — 10 years ago(August 09, 2015 06:48 AM)
Yeah, it
is
an interesting question.
Personally, I don't think Mama Corleone could ever have conceived that Michael would do such a thing; Vito never would have, and I have to wonder if Michael's order that Fredo not be touched until after she was gone was more to spare him having to face her than to protect her feelings. He knew he wasn't a patch on hs father, and so wanted it put off until there was no-one to rebuke him for it.
After all Connie always believed Fredo drowned.
I don't think she did. She knew Michael well enough, and what he'd done to Carlo, to realise the truth. She maintained the fiction because she knew that was part of the price of being in Michael's family.
You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment. -
b_paul123 — 10 years ago(September 28, 2015 03:43 PM)
it was a little hard to notice with the angle and the quick scene, so it was Fredo
who got shot in the boat on the river near the end of the movie?,
forgive me if it's a dumb question but i just finished watching it for the 1st time. -
puirt-a-beul — 10 years ago(September 28, 2015 04:08 PM)
Not a dumb question at all, b_paul.
Even though you've only just seen it for the first time, you might recall some key scenes that tell about Fredo's fate:
after Michael returned from Cuba, and was asking about what happened to Fredo, he says to Neri (who is, essentially, Michael's bodyguard and murderer-on-command) that he wants nothing to happen to Fredo while his mother is alive;
then when she dies, there's a scene at her wake where Fredo comes to Michael for reconciliation; Michael hugs Fredo to his chest, but looks over Fredo's head and catches Neri's eye; Neri lowers his eyes to the floor, knowing he's just been given the order to execute Fredo;
then, not long after, there's a scene where Fredo is telling Michael's son Anthony about how he caught a big fish by saying a Hail Mary; he's going to take Anthony out fishing on the lake, but Connie calls out to him that Michael wants to take Anthony into Reno. So Neri accompanies Fredo in the boat, and that's when Fredo is killed.
So yes, it was Fredo who gets shot out on the lake.
You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment. -
Fattycakes — 9 years ago(April 21, 2016 08:34 PM)
If the plot wanted it i am sure she could have found out and after losing Sonny & Vito i'd imagine that even a traditional background mother would not stand by idly.
I'd imagine some suppressed italian matriarch would surface and she would make him swear to spare Fredo. However, given Michael's ruthlessness i suspect it might still not be enough and if she was smart she would plan for after her death too by roping in Mary & Anthony to restrain him. I'd imagine that would be the only way for Fredo to survive. With all that emotional blackmail i suspect Michael might well relent as Fredo was no longer a threat. As the years went on i'd imagine he might well chill as more family was lost, he seemed sincerely remorseful about it later.
The problem however is that when Robert Duvall refused to reprise his role for part 3 they wrote him out and had him die. The actor for Fredo died in 1978 so even if they had originally written him to live, by the time they made the 3rd one they would have killed him by some other means.
It reminds me of the chinese anecdote whereby Cao Cao, a chinese warlord wanted to pass his position to his literarily accomplished son. The older brother was ruthless and schemed his way into inheriting it and killed another martial brother once his father was dead. He was about to kill the other brother but his mother intervened and made him promise to not do so. However he was ruthless and wanted to get rid of his brother so he set him a challenge, if his brother could make up a poem in the time he walked 7 steps about brothers but without mentioning brothers then he would spare him. If he failed then no one could lament his death as his fame would have been exposed to be lacking (dunno how he was going to use that to explain to his mother though). In the event the brother succeeded and was exiled instead. -
assenav_68 — 10 years ago(March 12, 2016 08:25 PM)
I also think Connie pretended to believe that Fredo drowned for Michael's sake. She saw how eaten up he was by his decision to have Fredo killed. He probably couldn't look her in the face if he knew that she knew the truth.
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puirt-a-beul — 10 years ago(March 12, 2016 08:34 PM)
Yes, I think you're right. If you look at the scene in GF III where she raises the subject, it's clear she's lying. And the subtext of that scene is that Connie's saying, "Michael, I'm on your side."
You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment. -
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An_Invisible_Dog — 10 years ago(November 23, 2015 10:17 AM)
I think it's inconceivable that she'd ever know or suspect such a thing as women were kept out of the business. Hence Connie's line to Sonny in the first film "Papa never talked business at the table" and then Michael telling Kay to "never ask me about my business". She was a modest, Italian wife, who knew her place.
But let's assume she did find out, you'd have to think she would confront Michael about it. She's not just gonna stand back and let her son murder one of her own?
That said Fredo does imply that Mama thought of him as the least favourable. When he's out with Michael he says "Mama used to tease me saying I wasn't her an and left by gypsies".
That said, I still don't think she'd stand by and let it happen without confronting Michael.
It's really a question of how detached Michael gets from his family. He's willing to cut off contact his wife and sister, murder his brother, banish his step brother from the business, murder his brother in law, but would he want to cut off ties with his mother? He clearly loved her as shown by the scene where he seeks her for family advice and given that he spares her the grief of losing another son.
But ultimately if she went to him knowing that he was planning to kill Fredo, would he really have gone through with it? Maybe, but after she died, like in the film.
Not one to lose sleep over though.