Who would you have play Barry Lyndon?
-
SeanJoyce — 12 years ago(March 11, 2014 07:57 AM)
Sterling Hayden -
The Killing
,
Dr. Strangelove
Timothy Carey -
The Killing
,
Paths of Glory
And as far as minor characters go, Pat Roach played Toole here and the milkbar bouncer in
A Clockwork Orange
, while Joe Turkel played Pvt. Arnaud in
Paths of Glory
and Lloyd the Bartender in
The Shining
.
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SeanJoyce — 12 years ago(March 12, 2014 02:42 PM)
Well I would, want to fight about it? Perhaps a duel would be more appropriate given the context of this discussion.
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hyperstillharry — 12 years ago(March 14, 2014 08:12 AM)
"
He was the best actor for the part. He looked right and I was confident that he possessed much greater acting ability than he had been allowed to show in many of the films he had previously done. In retrospect, I think my confidence in him was fully justified by his performance, and I still can't think of anyone who would have been better for the part. The personal qualities of an actor, as they relate to the role, are almost as important as his ability, and other actors, say, like Al Pacino, Jack Nicholson or Dustin Hoffman, just to name a few who are great actors, would nevertheless have been wrong to play Barry Lyndon. I liked Ryan and we got along very well together. In this regard the only difficulties I have ever had with actors happened when their acting technique wasn't good enough to do something you asked of them. One way an actor deals with this difficulty is to invent a lot of excuses that have nothing to do with the real problem. This was very well represented in Truffaut's Day For Night when Valentina Cortese, the star of the film within the film, hadn't bothered to learn her lines and claimed her dialogue fluffs were due to the confusion created by the script girl playing a bit part in the scene.
"Kubrick
The only real shortcoming was O'Neal's ridiculous attempt at an Irish accent, as irritatingly stage-Irish as in numerous other Hollywood and British films, from Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman in
Far and Away
to John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara in Ford's
The Quiet Man
, to Fred Astaire in Coppola's Leprechaun film, to the Blarney babblers in David Lean's condescending
Ryan's Daughter
(Funnily, it's as if that film was made by a relative of the corrupt and obsequious Lord Bullingdon such is the classist and patronizingly racist and sexist stereotyping). Of course, Bullingdon would indirectly 'reappear' as a spectre in Kubrick's subsequent film, via Philip Stone (Graham in
Barry Lyndon
) playing Delbert Grady, the obnoxiously classist-racist 1920s butler-waiter-caretaker who directs Jack Torrance to do his superegoic duty by "correcting" his family.
But I think he cast Ryan O'Neal as Barry for the very same reasons he chose Tom Cruise to play Bill Harford in
Eyes Wide Shut
, straight-up, pre-packaged, one-dimensional Hollywood actors playing nave, myopic and relentlessly narcissistic-smug characters who undergo a traumatic subjective destitution as their whole symbolic reality collapses around them.
" that being Peter Sellers, who appeared in both Lolita and three times in Doctor Strangelove,"
And three times in
Lolita
too. I think Kubrick must have been very impressed with a famous and still eminently watchable old caustic-satirical black comedy from the 1940s, the Ealing-produced film
Kind Hearts and Coronets
, where Alec Guinness plays
eight
different parts or characters, all the members of an extended-family Dukedom, both male and female. A film about an obsessively social-climbing serial killer knocking off everyone in his way, all obstacles to securing the formal title of a Duke and all his wealth and estates (his mother was disinherited from the Dukedom family because she married a poor Italian opera singer). What's more, that film - though it is an absurdist black comedy like
Dr Strangelove
, whereas
Barry Lyndon
is straightforward horrendous tragedy accompanied by bitter irony - has remarkable thematic resonances with
Barry Lyndon
: it too is about a central character turned down by a smug-spoiled classist society girl who chooses instead to marry a man of wealth and social status (like Barry was rejected by cousin Nora for Capt Quin) and who seeks revenge by both gaining a higher aristocratic position (a Dukedom!) and a passive-trusting beautiful woman as his wife. Until it all goes wrong, until it all unravels
" and Kubrick cast Kirk Douglas in both Paths of Glory and Spartacus."
It was the other way around though. Kirk Douglas, as executive producer of both of those films, cast himself in the title roles of those two films, the only time this happened to Kubrick, and indeed, ultimately the reason he fled from Hollywood and America and settled at a safe distance thousands of miles away in London, ensuring that he would produce all his subsequent films and have 'final cut' written into all his film contracts.
"Perhaps most memorable was Patrick Magee, who played the Chevalier here, having earlier played the writer Frank in A Clockwork Orange."
That's one of the real enigmas of
Barry Lyndon
, the sudden unexplained disappearance of the Chavalier from the film. The last time he appears in the film is at the wedding ceremony in the church. And then he's gone, never to reappear. A little odd, given his central role in Barry's life up to that point, as a substitute Uncle figure: Barry had already earlier lost his gambling-loving conman Uncle (who lost his portion of Quin's "fifteen hundred a year" playing cards and had conspired with others to get Barry out of the way so that Nora could mar -
kenny-164 — 12 years ago(March 14, 2014 12:44 PM)
harry,
Nice thoughtful post, but ftr I merely referred to Douglas's appearing twice to note one of the few times a lead appeared in more than one Kubrick film.
I will take issue with your referring to Maureen O'Hara in The Quiet Man as hving a stage Irish accent, though. Heading into St. Patrick's Day weekend at that! Ms. O'Hara was born in Ireland, in a suburb of Dublin. She often played American characters, such as in Miracle on 34th Street, and i think with an acceptably competent American accent. (One of hte great beauties of the twentieth century as well! - don't pick on Maureen O'Hara) And John Wayne spoke in the entire film with his American accent, not attempting an Irish one, since he played a character who had spent the vast majority of his life in the US, even if born in Ireland. Bad example for you to pick on The Quiet Man.
I also think calling Ryan's Daughter condescending is painting with too broad a brush.
But the rest of your post was good. -
hyperstillharry — 12 years ago(March 15, 2014 06:23 PM)
"Nice thoughtful post, but ftr I merely referred to Douglas's appearing twice to note one of the few times a lead appeared in more than one Kubrick film."
Cheers, yeah, it's okay, I was simply pointing out that Kubrick did not cast Douglas, as Douglas did.
"I will take issue with your referring to Maureen O'Hara in The Quiet Man as hving a stage Irish accent, though."
She does, as do numerous other characters in the film, in spite of those characters being portrayed by Irish actors. There's also an unfortunate element of this in
Barry Lyndon
where a number of the Irish actors in the film play up the stage-Irishness of their roles, acting out a role to satisfy or appeal to the other's/foreigner's fantasy construct.
"Heading into St. Patrick's Day weekend at that!"
But isn't that a massive exemplification of the petrification and reification of stock-Irish idiot identities?
"Ms. O'Hara was born in Ireland, in a suburb of Dublin."
So? I was born in Dublin and live nearby. That has nothing to do with the arguments being made here.
"She often played American characters, such as in Miracle on 34th Street, and i think with an acceptably competent American accent."
Yeah, but this is all a
non sequitur
, as we're not talking about her character portrayals in other films. Sure, she portrays a convincing New York Jewish mother in Woody Allen's
Hannah and Her Sisters
, but all of this is quite separate from the one-dimensional passive-dumb stereotype she was required to play in
The Quite Man
.
"And John Wayne spoke in the entire film with his American accent, not attempting an Irish one,"
I wasn't suggesting that he was, as his role is clearly that of a sentimental-masochistic Irish-American seeking out his imaginary 'roots'.
"Bad example for you to pick on The Quiet Man."
On the contrary, it is a supreme example of insular-nationalistic stereotyping, of constructing pseudo-ethnic fantasies of the passified other.
"I also think calling Ryan's Daughter condescending is painting with too broad a brush."
Not at all. It really is atrocious, a direct reflection and manifestation of stage-Irish idiot stereotypes, perpetuating as it did a racist-classist foreign gaze. Compare it to, for instance, Jim Sheridan's
The Field
, which also has its stock of rural-idiot Irish characters (like, for example, John Hurt playing the toothless village idiot ("
The field, Bull, it's for sale! by
auction
"), but at least that latter film, however tokenistically, examines the underlying socio-economic, oedipal, and psycho-biographic complexities of the characters and their motivations, in spite of its many other obvious limitations).
"Yes, of course I completely agree, but aren't you actually completely wrong?" -
Felixthecat34213 — 10 years ago(December 13, 2015 10:12 PM)
The only real shortcoming was O'Neal's ridiculous attempt at an Irish accent, as irritatingly stage-Irish as in numerous other Hollywood and British films, from Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman in Far and Away to John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara in Ford's The Quiet Man, to Fred Astaire in Coppola's Leprechaun film, to the Blarney babblers in David Lean's condescending Ryan's Daughter (Funnily, it's as if that film was made by a relative of the corrupt and obsequious Lord Bullingdon such is the classist and patronizingly racist and sexist stereotyping). Of course, Bullingdon would indirectly 'reappear' as a spectre in Kubrick's subsequent film, via Philip Stone (Graham in Barry Lyndon) playing Delbert Grady, the obnoxiously classist-racist 1920s butler-waiter-caretaker who directs Jack Torrance to do his superegoic duty by "correcting" his family.
I disagree completly. I'm not Irish, but I found his accent to be subtle and non intrusive. I almost forget his character is supposed to be Irish because he makes the accent very natural. -
Nicanthony — 9 years ago(January 10, 2017 06:17 AM)
I didn't notice the bad Irish accent. Perhaps one has to be Irish, or be from Europe/UK to notice the difference.
Also, I enjoyed Ryan O'Neal as the lead.
PS. I give Clockwork Orange, Barry Lyndon, and Dr Strangelove all 10/10. But Kubrick movies for me tend to go off the scale. Clockwork deserves an 11, and Strangelove a 10.5. Barry Lyndon is the most flawed of the 3, but so beautiful it still deserves a 10. Else I would have to shift all my other ratings down by a point. -
The_Centurion — 12 years ago(March 11, 2014 01:20 PM)
I think Ryan O'Neill fit the part very well, and remember that it was the studio who demanded that Kubrick cast a top ten actor in the leading role thus limiting options. Malcolm McDowell and Anthony Hopkins are both interesting possibilities, however.
You are a smooth smoothie, you know. -
tyrexden — 11 years ago(June 02, 2014 09:29 AM)
This movie is the movie it is, because of Ryan O'Neal. He has a great balance of youthful naivitee, admirable heroics, moppish affection for his love life, innocence yet capability. He makes it easy to root for, even though he's not a typical protagonist.
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danasider — 9 years ago(August 14, 2016 08:51 PM)
I agree with this most. Sure, the Irish accent wasn't great, but all the other qualities you've stated make O'Neal perfect for the role.
I saw some other actors mentioned like Malcolm McDowell and Anthony Hopkins. Neither have the boyish charm that O'Neal and the character share, not to mention, the looks one would need to be a believable casanova which would cause the Lady Lyndon to fall in love 6 hours after meeting.
Normally, I don't care about looks and even get annoyed when everyone looks perfect in film, but Redmond Barry is the quintessential hero in all aspects including charm, natural ability and looksbut subverted like only Kubrick can do. -
robhiphop — 11 years ago(December 01, 2014 03:38 AM)
The character of Barry Lyndon requires a certain sense of naivet. He's an opportunistic social climber, but there's a kind of cluelessness in the way he blunders crudely from one situation to the next. Both Malcolm McDowell and Anthony Hopkins would've been too "knowing" and self aware to really carry this off. Ryan O'Neal might have his limitations as an actor, but he was right for this part.
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Bourbon_King — 11 years ago(December 25, 2014 03:25 PM)
Barry Lyndon is one of my all time favorite films as well.
I do think however that Ryan was a good choice to play Redmond (bad accent and all). Ryan's poor accent lends to Redmond's inability to ever fit in with the English Aristocracy. Remember also that the Chevalier himself spoke German and Hungarian with a passive Irish lilt that the Chief of Police in Prussia found highly suspect as well. It's a running theme throughout the film about not fitting in.
"Where's your spark now?"