so was McMurphy actually crazy?
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ck1-5 — 10 years ago(December 30, 2015 05:35 AM)
No, he was not crazy; he was, however, the biggest threat to the Nurse's tyranny that she had ever had to deal with, due to the fact that he was not the sort of man who could be bullied into anythingand, while we're on the subject of what should go on in "civilized society", I don't believe that people who are put in charge of trying to help people who are mentally unstable are supposed to go out of their way to antagonize them instead.
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somesunnyday — 10 years ago(January 01, 2016 11:20 PM)
He certainly was not crazy. Nurse Ratched was working on him just liked she worked on everyone else (to paraphrase the Chief). She crossed the line with her manipulation of Billy and sent McMurphy over the edge. I'm with Taber on that one, you can see him egging Mack on and at that point in the film, so was I.
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GreenGoblinsOckVenom86 — 9 years ago(May 09, 2016 08:55 PM)
The Nurse is the one who is `crazy. She doesn't even do her job of helping any of the patients in the movie who I don't think are that crazy. The first group scene in the movie where she puts Harding on the spot to talk about his wife pretty well shows she doesn't want to help people. And it's obvious when she does nothing to keep everyone from arguing with each other. She just lets them argue and fight without any consequences for them doing so.
She also berates Billy for being attracted to women which is also dumb and I have to say Billy's mother is also dumb for not wanting Billy to have a normal life. When McMurphy suggests that they watch the World series she could've granted the request by putting the TV in another room where the patients who are interested can watch. But instead goes on about how the other patients would've been inconvenienced by it despite the fact they are all too far gone to really care about anything.
Heck in the book this is based on Chief who is the narrator of the book says that she doesn't help anyone and her main goal is to basically make every person that comes to the ward into a vegetable. She is a no good stinking evil jerk and so is anyone in history who was like her. She truly is a villain who only cared about herself and not about any of her patients.
Green Goblin is great! -
cartesianthought — 9 years ago(May 13, 2016 03:48 AM)
It depends what you mean by crazy. He's definitely a sociopath who has a high excitement threshold (aka he had to do outrageous things just to be aroused).
The man definitely knew right from wrong and he knew what he was doing every step of the way. -
GirlwonderReturns — 9 years ago(May 24, 2016 10:29 AM)
I'm not sure you know what a sociopath is. Sociopaths by definition lack empathy or conscience. Mac doesn't fit that description at all; he was very gregarious and he clearly cared about Billy, otherwise he wouldn't have attacked Ratched after Billy's suicide.
I used to know a guy with antisocial personality disorder, AKA sociopathy. He was nothing at all like McMurphy. He would single out a target, hone in, and get mean. He got off on hurting people (generally emotionally and verbally, though he could occasionally be physically violent as well). If you ignored his taunts and acted like you weren't bothered, he invariably moved on to a new target; he needed a reaction to get his kicks. McMurphy was not a mean person by nature; he didn't get his jollies by hurting people. Yes, he lacked impulse control, and he didn't have much of a filter, but those things do not equate to mental illness, necessarily, and far more is required to call someone a sociopath. McMurphy was not crazy.
The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it. -
DocCasualty — 9 years ago(September 06, 2016 03:20 PM)
Words like crazy and sociopath certainly mean something to most of us yet lack specificity.
Symptoms & Criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder
According to the DSM-5, there are four diagnostic criterion, of which Criterion A has seven sub-features.
A. Disregard for and violation of others rights since age 15, as indicated by one of the seven sub features:
Failure to obey laws and norms by engaging in behavior which results in criminal arrest, or would warrant criminal arrest
Lying, deception, and manipulation, for profit tor self-amusement,
Impulsive behavior
Irritability and aggression, manifested as frequently assaults others, or engages in fighting
Blatantly disregards safety of self and others,
A pattern of irresponsibility and
Lack of remorse for actions (American Psychiatric Association, 2013)
The other diagnostic Criterion are:
B. The person is at least age 18,
C. Conduct disorder was present by history before age 15
D. and the antisocial behavior does not occur in the context of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder (American Psychiatric Association, 2013)
This is actually DSM-4 criteria and DSM-5 is a little different but 4 is frankly easier to understand. We don't have all the info but I'd say the portrayal of McMurphy is textbook Antisocial Personality Disorder.
"Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye."
2001: A Space Odyssey -
InherentlyYours — 9 years ago(December 12, 2016 07:30 PM)
I mean surely one can agree that in civilized society you can't go around strangling nurses and soforth.
My I surely ask your age? You think because he lost his temper after seeing Billy dead from suicide, then his strangling of the Nurse means he's crazy? and what is the
soforth?
You don't understand? -
tyrexden — 9 years ago(December 27, 2016 10:16 AM)
Sure. i'm 41.
i think attempted murder is a bit nuts, regardless of what drove you to that point, particularly when that thing was the result of another crazy person killing himself because he was scared of getting in trouble with his mom. -
InherentlyYours — 9 years ago(December 27, 2016 01:15 PM)
Maybe you are not savvy to the inner-working of the mind. To be "nuts", as you say, is vague. We don't know if he was just angry or actually attempted to murder her, as such. For example, if I witnessed you kill my loved one, my hands would be around your throat also, whether I intended to kill you or not.
But that's not why he attacked Ratched; he attacked her because the young killed himself over the ordeal provoked by Ratched, not just for fear of getting into trouble with him mom. -
tyrexden — 9 years ago(December 28, 2016 09:48 AM)
ok if not nuts, then still criminally violent. Being angry is not an excuse. Yes, there are laws that speak to being a crime of passion, but he'd still get charged with manslaughter or murder in the 2nd degree (had she died).
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znapper — 9 years ago(February 06, 2017 04:26 AM)
Well, since we are in the closing days of the IMDB-board, why not try to contribute?
After a recent viewing with my girlfriend, I concluded that I think McMyrphy was a nutter actually, and I think he had a moment of realization as well:
I have always wondered why they didn't leave the last night, when the party ended.
The window was open, the car was there, just gather the girls and go, or go alone.
In the scene where McMyrphy sits in the chair, drunk and half asleep, you can see that he seems to be reflecting about this situation, and his new found friends and seem to think for himself yeah..maybe he is a little crazy, maybe he belongs here after all?
it's not so bad after all, this institution, he belongs and can be himself (pretty crazy) with no consequences.
Then he falls asleep and the ending of the film draws near.
At least that's my conclusion, why else would he just fall asleep like that without a care in the world?
Can someone explain why he didn't leave? Did he have the same issue as the chief, nor daring to leave after all? -
The_White_Hotel — 9 years ago(February 08, 2017 10:53 AM)
He was waiting for Candy to finish with Billy. He falls asleep because he's been up all night drinking. McMurphy hated the asylum and the restrictions it placed on his liberty. There's no way he wanted to remain there.
These are the only words I have, I'm stuck with them, stuck in them -
znapper — 9 years ago(February 09, 2017 01:50 AM)
I think that is too easy, he wasn't that attached to Billy.
But it's even simpler, apparently.
They just got drunk and overslept, but it don't come across too well in the film.
it's explained better in the book.
http://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/45423/why-didnt-mcmurphy-escape
I guess that solves it. -
The_White_Hotel — 9 years ago(February 09, 2017 11:04 AM)
He wasn't waiting for Billy who had already said he wasn't going with them, he was waiting for Candy who was (presumably she wouldn't fancy the idea of sticking around to get arrested in the morning). But yes, he did get drunk and fall asleep, but Candy was the reason he waited at all.
These are the only words I have, I'm stuck with them, stuck in them