How do I know if film school is worth it?
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RynoII — 9 years ago(January 09, 2017 03:46 PM)
Okay thanks. When I went to take the tour of the school though, and spoke to a couple of the students who graduated, they said that it was worth of it because of the networking, and because of the demo reels they made out of it, as class projects. The school helped get them the demo reels they needed and helped get access to good casts and crews which they would not have had access to on their own.
They said that the networking and demo reels were worth more to them in the industry, than getting a recognized diploma. So does that make a difference.
Also the places you mentioned I could not afford to go to, and I am not an American, so that makes it tricky.
Plus you said that film school is about networking and working on your craft, so isn't that what we will be doing in those six months? -
Arriflex74 — 9 years ago(January 10, 2017 02:41 PM)
I'll pretty much echo what firearms posted.
"They said that the networking and demo reels were worth more to them in the industry, than getting a recognized diploma. So does that make a difference."
Networking and a reel are a couple of aspects of film programs, though to be honest what you make in film school is rarely worth putting on a professional reel. Its a good start, but not a complete professional reel. The reason for film school is to learn the craft, learn the rules of the medium and to learn from doing. Networking is a secondary benefit.
As to networking, is anybody from that program actually working in the business? What percentage of the alumni work in the field?
"Also the places you mentioned I could not afford to go to, and I am not an American, so that makes it tricky."
There are student visas, student loans and grants. So that's not an excuse. And there are plenty of good, real film schools in Canada. Look here:
http://www.canadianfilm.com/schools/bc.html
"Plus you said that film school is about networking and working on your craft, so isn't that what we will be doing in those six months?"
There is a world of difference between a quick film workshop program that churns out anybody who can pay the tuition, and a longer established program where you have the time to learn the craft, learn from your classmates, and most importantly learn from your mistakes with constructive criticism. The quality of the faculty and the gear at real programs are going to be much better than workshop programs, as will be the quality of the students. If you have to apply and be chosen, chances are the caliber of student is going to be better than somebody who just paid the tuition and showed up.
You won't learn $10K worth of craft in 6 months. Period.
Never go with a hippy to a second location. -
jackwareingfilms — 9 years ago(January 10, 2017 07:23 AM)
I think the best part of film school is having access to film equipment, and a built in crew(other film students) available to shoot demos/shorts to show for future jobs. I got a couple years work in Czech Republic because of the films I shot at NYFA. However, Film school doesn't give, or teach you how to come up with cool stories, and they shouldn't be expected to. But, this is where I saw most students fail. They could master the technology much easier than me, but they had no (narrative) stories to tell. Writing, and learning to sketch storyboards is IMHO the most important thing for a (low budget) film director to know.
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RynoII — 9 years ago(January 10, 2017 04:35 PM)
Okay thanks. To be honest, I have no idea if I want to take it or not. I could get student loans to go to a much more expensive school, but I was saving the majority of my money for other future film projects, and I was saving a large portion of it for my first feature film, which would be about 40K, to start off with, plus any more I could get when the time comes.
So is it worth taking all that money and putting it towards going to a much more expensive school, or is it worth using that money to make the film projects with?
As for if anyone in the school is working in the business, the guy I talked to there, said they hire people in the business to come in for that.
Here is the film school:
http://www.rais.ca/Motion Picture Arts
As far as getting visa and getting loans as a solution, last time I checked, loans have to be payed off, so I wonder if it's really worth it, rather than using that money to make future films.
On the other hand, there is a film program at a university one province over from you where graduates are seen consistently getting awards, international recognition and - most important - work within the industry.
Which film school is this? Are you talking about Vancouver Film school, cause I am two provinces over, and cannot afford to live in Vancouver.
Also, in the link that was provided before:
http://www.canadianfilm.com/schools/bc.html
It says there that the Vancouver Film School course is only 15 months. Where as the one I am going to is six. You say that six months is not near enough time, but does 9 more months, really make all the difference? -
Arriflex74 — 9 years ago(January 10, 2017 08:56 PM)
That school, while putting up a good website, is nothing special and basically a community college at a massive rate hike. Nobody on faculty has any real experience, mostly industrial videos regional commercial work. The coursework is a plow-through as many types of formats as possible to seem to be "extensive", but in reality you're not getting any depth of technique or ability to refine and improve on genres. You're just skipping from one style to the next without ever getting a chance to improve. It boasts that "note taking time is minimal". That is terrible since notes, both in development and after production is how you learn this craft. That's a bad program model.
If you're interested in narrative filmmaking, find a program that does narrative film. FSU, USC and AFI teach traditional three-act narrative structure and you're given years to delve into learning narrative film structure and technique. NYU and UCLA lean more towards Indie, non-traditional filmmaking. UT Austin is more Indie and documentary based. SF State is more experimental centered. Hopefully you get the idea about how to start looking at film programs if you're still interested.
"It says there that the Vancouver Film School course is only 15 months. Where as the one I am going to is six. You say that six months is not near enough time, but does 9 more months, really make all the difference?"
Time is always essential when you are trying to learn a craft as diverse, artistic and technical as filmmaking.
"As far as getting visa and getting loans as a solution, last time I checked, loans have to be payed off, so I wonder if it's really worth it, rather than using that money to make future films."
nobody can make that call except for you. All I can say is that you've been posting on this board for a couple of years and haven't seemed to gain any concrete understanding of the craft. So maybe being immersed in a program where you're together with other filmmakers who can help you understand what you seem to not absorb from this board and overambitious ideas for your budgets and skill level could be helpful.
Never go with a hippy to a second location. -
RynoII — 9 years ago(January 10, 2017 09:49 PM)
Okay thanks. Well I would like to save money for actually making movies so I really don't want to leave the country and be in debt on student loans. Everyone I talked to who is says they regretted doing it.
So far I have been learning pretty much always as a boom op so far on sets. So I can keep doing that as well as making my own shorts, or learn by doing a course like this, but I do not want to spend more than maybe 10K on the course, so I can have more for movie making afterwards.
You said that 6 months is not enough, yet 15 months is, in comparison? What is the approximate minimum do you think when looking into programs?
I also read a lot of reviews of Vancouver Film School, and almost all of them were negative, saying that the industry does not take VFS seriously, unless you have graduated in the special effects and audio departments. But not for people wanting to direct, such as myself.
So either I keep on making shorts, or take this course maybe or a course of an equivalent price, where I would make a few shorts out of it, and learn how, or at least I hope.
I was thinking about what you said about "note taking time is minimal". I also talked to the guy who ran the school, and I asked him if they go into teaching how to budget your filmmaking much He said that they can modify the course so I do learn budgeting, but "most students fall asleep when it comes to learning budgeting though". This statement also made me feel like I wasn't being totally sold on the program as well. -
Arriflex74 — 9 years ago(January 11, 2017 07:40 AM)
Well I would like to save money for actually making movies so I really don't want to leave the country and be in debt on student loans. Everyone I talked to who is says they regretted doing it.
That is everyone's dream, to just make their own movies. The problem is that if you don't know how to learn from your mistakes, you're just going to keep throwing your money away on bad projects that don't improve.
You also don't have to leave the country to get an education. I linked to Canadian film programs. All I was trying to show you is that not all film programs are the same. You have to do the investigating and ask the critical questions about what you want from a film program, what the program offers and value for money.
You said that 6 months is not enough, yet 15 months is, in comparison? What is the approximate minimum do you think when looking into programs?
It isn't a quantifiable variable. It all depends on the program, but less than a year is a waste of time and money in my experience. It takes time to learn this craft, and you are always learning. Film school gives you the fundamentals of the medium and the start of a skill-set that you take out into the world and expand upon.
What you need to look at is; how is the program structured, how many sets do you get to work on, what is the programs emphasis, what is the quality of the gear, facilities and faculty, and how many of the alumni are working in the industry.
Here's the thing about film school, it really exposes you to the different jobs on set. At FSU we had a class of 22 students, about 18 said they wanted to be directors at the start of their coursework. Half-way through, only about 8 remained on track for directing. All the rest of us realized we preferred either cinematography, editing, sound design or producing to directing. While there I directed 3 short films, produced 4, edited 4 and shot 8, while being crew in various position on about 100 others.
I was thinking about what you said about "note taking time is minimal". I also talked to the guy who ran the school, and I asked him if they go into teaching how to budget your filmmaking much He said that they can modify the course so I do learn budgeting, but "most students fall asleep when it comes to learning budgeting though". This statement also made me feel like I wasn't being totally sold on the program as well.
That speaks volumes about the program, but it speaks louder to the caliber of student that goes to this program. IF they have to modify the program to teach you the basics, then walk away.
Never go with a hippy to a second location. -
RynoII — 9 years ago(January 11, 2017 03:27 PM)
Okay thanks. Well I wasn't planning on putting all the experience and practice I would get out of the school. So far I have been a boom op on other people's movies, and I thought that maybe I would go into the school being a boom op, and editor, since that is what I am most experienced at so far.
I wasn't planning on relying on the school to learn the entire craft, as I have already learned a lot just from making my own projects, and working on other people's. But I thought that school might teach me some things that maybe I couldn't learn on sets. Not all, but some, that was worth it.
Unless I am wrong and maybe none of it is worth it at all -
RynoII — 9 years ago(January 11, 2017 05:55 PM)
Okay thanks. The recording studio class, is a completely different course though, and it's not part of the motion picture arts program. It's a separate program entirely, they said.
Also, when you say there is a better school one province over, which school are we talking about here? I truly am lost. The one province over from me is Manitoba, and I do not know of any schools in Manitoba. Which is it? I can't find it, so could you please tell me? -
Arriflex74 — 9 years ago(January 11, 2017 09:44 PM)
The recording studio class, is a completely different course though, and it's not part of the motion picture arts program. It's a separate program entirely, they said.
The point the FT is trying to get across is that the school is primarily a audio recording arts program that recently started a motion picture program. Thus the motion picture program is heavily borrowing from the recording program in structure, and not really a full film program in its own right.
Never go with a hippy to a second location. -
RynoII — 9 years ago(January 15, 2017 03:01 PM)
Oh okay, I thought it seemed like a lot of it was devoted to video, cause when you tour the school, they have a lot of video equipment and green screen/FX rooms, and just departments devoted to video related matters. I don't think they could borrow from the audio department much cause the audio department needs there resources for their program as well, so it looks like both parts of the building are separate completely, from when I took the tour.
I am heavy into audio when it comes to filmmaking though, since sound is half the movie, so I thought that if they are heavy into audio as well, isn't that a good thing, since sound is half the movie?
I talked to one of the students so far and she said that she learned a lot and made good connections, so it was totally worth the money for her, so I wonder how bad could the school be, if one student so far actually really likes it. But I am having second thoughts now. -
Arriflex74 — 9 years ago(January 15, 2017 04:44 PM)
I am heavy into audio when it comes to filmmaking though, since sound is half the movie, so I thought that if they are heavy into audio as well, isn't that a good thing, since sound is half the movie?
It is good to have a good sound department within a good film program, but what we noticed on the school's page is that their film program seems lifted from the recording school, and not a real quality film program in and of itself (as we wrote about earlier. it's lots of styles with no depth or chance to improve on a style. Just bam, bam, bam on to the next project without ever learning what worked and didn't work on your shoot. Plus, no class time and them admitting that they would have to make adjustments to teach you how to produce and budget. Massive red flags!).
I talked to one of the students so far and she said that she learned a lot and made good connections, so it was totally worth the money for her, so I wonder how bad could the school be, if one student so far actually really likes it. But I am having second thoughts now.
Yeah, one person out of how many graduates? You can find one person who thinks anything is positive, doesn't mean that it really is. Again, what is the percentage of grads working professionally in the industry? What is this school's reputation within the industry? So you would be spending nearly $2000/month on something that is on par with a community college program.
Never go with a hippy to a second location. -
RynoII — 9 years ago(January 15, 2017 04:51 PM)
For sure, I would have to find other grad's to talk to. Not sure where to look though. I thought that the fact that they were willing to modify the program for me, was not a red flag, but a good sign, cause it shows they are willing to do that for a student's advantage of a particular area, that student might find useful.
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RynoII — 9 years ago(January 15, 2017 04:51 PM)
For sure, I would have to find other grad's to talk to. Not sure where to look though. I thought that the fact that they were willing to modify the program for me, was not a red flag, but a good sign, cause it shows they are willing to do that for a student's advantage of a particular area, that student might find useful.
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Arriflex74 — 9 years ago(January 15, 2017 08:45 PM)
For sure, I would have to find other grad's to talk to. Not sure where to look though.
Ask them for an alumni list. You say you've been helping out on other people's films. Ask them if any of them have heard of or worked with people from this program. Again, this isn't hard. Start thinking.
I thought that the fact that they were willing to modify the program for me, was not a red flag, but a good sign, cause it shows they are willing to do that for a student's advantage of a particular area, that student might find useful.
The simple fact that fundamental aspects to the craft like producing and budgeting are NOT part of the regular curriculum is a huge issue, and a further example that this isn't a serious film program, along with all the other issues FT and I have pointed out to you in this thread. Don't know how many other ways and times I can say it before it sinks in. This is an overpriced community college level program. Take some time, do the research, ask the right questions and quit looking for the quick and easy way to learn this craft.
Never go with a hippy to a second location. -
RynoII — 9 years ago(January 16, 2017 10:05 PM)
Okay thanks. Well I have been researching and couldn't find any graduates of the program so far, but one thing a lot of film school graduates say, is that even though the degree is useless, and they could have used that money to make their own movies, it was still worth going, cause of the connections they make. And that is what I am lacking is connections.
So I was wondering if it's still worth going for that reason? As for going to a more expensive one, you say this one is overpriced, but other main ones in Canada are higher, and I could not afford it.
So it's pretty much either go to this one and hope the connections are worth it, or just use the money to make my own short films, or add the money to a feature. Which option do you think is best? -
RynoII — 9 years ago(January 16, 2017 10:05 PM)
Okay thanks. Well I have been researching and couldn't find any graduates of the program so far, but one thing a lot of film school graduates say, is that even though the degree is useless, and they could have used that money to make their own movies, it was still worth going, cause of the connections they make. And that is what I am lacking is connections.
So I was wondering if it's still worth going for that reason? As for going to a more expensive one, you say this one is overpriced, but other main ones in Canada are higher, and I could not afford it.
So it's pretty much either go to this one and hope the connections are worth it, or just use the money to make my own short films, or add the money to a feature. Which option do you think is best? -
Arriflex74 — 9 years ago(January 16, 2017 11:03 PM)
Well I have been researching and couldn't find any graduates of the program so far
Your first red flag! Good programs that have students working in the industry will always flaunt those students.
it was still worth going, cause of the connections they make.
Total BS. Connections only work if the school puts out quality graduates.
I've been in this profession for almost 20 years and NOBODY I've worked with has attended a program like the one you're jazzed about (or they are too embarrassed about going to one to admit it).
See where this is going?
And that is what I am lacking is connections.
No. What you're lacking is understanding of the medium. That's where a GOOD film program could help. With quality come the connections via the alumni.
So I was wondering if it's still worth going for that reason? As for going to a more expensive one, you say this one is overpriced, but other main ones in Canada are higher, and I could not afford it.
Dear god! Just go to a state university with a media program and a film theory class and you'll have a better education at a lower cost than this program.
Simple rule of thumb, if you simply have to sign up, pay the tuition and don't have to apply and get accepted, the program is a waste of time and money. But if you need reassurances about every little decision, after knowledgable people have given you sound advice, just go and hope for the best.
Never go with a hippy to a second location.