Neo-Noir Quest 2
-
Jessica_Rabbit69 — 10 years ago(August 20, 2015 09:45 AM)
Spike, I haven't really watched too much Neo-Noir yet. I'd like to check them out though. But somehow I seem to be unable to let go of the 40's and 50's.
When did you post part one of your list? Do you still have a link to them? Or are they all in different posts in which case posting them again would be asking too much.
Jessica Rabbit
"I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way." -
Spikeopath — 10 years ago(August 21, 2015 08:24 AM)
All films have been coined as neo-noir or one of the off-shoots of such in official publications or put forward by noir lovers on the best regarded web sites.
Drive (2011)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10780504/reviews-745
Malice (1993)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10107497/reviews-92
Body Heat (1981)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10082089/reviews-152
Out of Time (2003)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10313443/reviews-159
Sharky's Machine (1981)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10083064/reviews-57
Hustle (1975)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10073133/reviews-26
Best Seller (1987)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10092641/reviews-29
Cop (1988)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10092783/reviews-37
Bad Influence (1990)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10099091/reviews-52
Blood Simple (1984)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10086979/reviews-245
Insomnia (2002)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10278504/reviews-653
One False Move (1992)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10102592/reviews-62
At Close Range (1986)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10090670/reviews-79
A History of Violence (2005)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10399146/reviews-1112
Things to Do in Denver When You're Dead (1995)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10114660/reviews-145
The Big Easy (1986)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10092654/reviews-60
Before the Devil Knows You're Dead (2007)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10292963/reviews-277
Manhunter (1986)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10091474/reviews-449
Heat (1995)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10113277/reviews-885
Narc (2002)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10272207/reviews-221
Madigan (1968)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10063256/reviews-42
Miami Vice (2006)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10430357/reviews-997
The Salton Sea (2002)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10235737/reviews-192
City by the Sea (2002)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10269095/reviews-174
To Live and Die in L.A. (1985)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10090180/reviews-215
The Killers (1964)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10058262/reviews-66
Basic Instinct (1992)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10103772/reviews-307
Black Rain (1989)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10096933/reviews-113
Gattaca (1997)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10119177/reviews-622
New Jack City (1991)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10102526/reviews-79
True Romance (1993)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10108399/reviews-471
Red Rock West (1993)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10105226/reviews-75
Romeo Is Bleeding (1993)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10107983/reviews-92
Trance (2013)
http://www.imdb.com/board/11924429/reviews-24
Eastern Promises (2007)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10765443/reviews-405
The Limey (1999)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10165854/reviews-245
Heist (2001)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10252503/reviews-275
D.O.A. (1988)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10094933/reviews-45
No Way Out (1987)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10093640/reviews-87
Kiss of Death (1995)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10113552/reviews-60
The Zodiac (2005)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10371739/reviews-52
Miami Blues (1990)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10100143/reviews-51
Night Moves (1975)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10073453/reviews-49
Dark City (1998)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10118929/reviews-653
The Bedroom Window (1987)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10092627/reviews-36
Liar (1997)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10119527/reviews-70
The Number 23 (2007)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10481369/reviews-404
House of Games (1987)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10093223/reviews-110
Night and the City (1992)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10105001/reviews-31
Mulholland Falls (1996)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10117107/reviews-97
Fear City (1984)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10087247/reviews-28
A Simple Plan (1998)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10120324/reviews-438
Klute (1971)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10067309/reviews-103
Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10373469/reviews-348
Hard Eight (1996)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10119256/reviews-143
The Driver (1978)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10077474/reviews-75
The Long Goodbye (1973)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10070334/reviews-148
State of Grace (1990)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10100685/reviews-119
Collateral (2004)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10369339/reviews-877
Hana-Bi (1997)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10119250/reviews-125
Internal Affairs (1990)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10099850/reviews-70
The Grifters (1990)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10099703/reviews-94
52 Pick-Up (1986)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10090567/reviews-45
Jennifer Eight (1992)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10104549/reviews-58
Deadfall (2012)
http://www.imdb.com/board/11667310/reviews-79
Johnny Handsome (1989)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10097626/reviews-49
Hickey & Boggs (1972)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10068698/reviews-23
Man on Fire (2004)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10328107/reviews-648
Get Carter (1971)
http://www.imdb.com/board/10067128/reviews-187
So much fun and dark enjoyment, I will partake in a quest part 2
The
SpikeopathHospital Number
217 -
Spikeopath — 10 years ago(August 22, 2015 02:41 AM)
You're welcome mate. I still have a box load of the oldies still to watch as well, that's always on going as much as the neo years are. It's interesting to compare the original wave with the modern era approach to noir, the influence of those 40s and 50s should never be under estimated, the impact is still being felt today, even in big budget superhero movies!
The
SpikeopathHospital Number
217 -
Spikeopath — 10 years ago(August 22, 2015 08:31 AM)
Point Blank (1967)
You're a very bad man, Walker, a very destructive man!
Point Blank
is directed by
John Boorman
and collectively adapted to screenplay by
Alexander Jacobs
,
David Newhouse
and
Rafe Newhouse
from the novel
The Hunter
written by
Richard Stark
. It stars
Lee Marvin
,
Angie Dickinson
,
Keenan Wynn
,
Carroll O'Connor
,
Lloyd Bochner
and
Michael Strong
. Music is by
Johnny Mandel
and the
Panavision
cinematography (in
Metrocolor
) is by
Philip H. Lathrop
.
Betrayed by wife and friend during a robbery,
Walker
(
Marvin
) is left dying on a stone cold cell floor at closed down
Alcatraz
Pure
neo-noir
, a film that could be argued was ahead of its time, given that it wouldn't find a fan base until many years later. Yet it deserves to be bracketed as a benchmark for the second phase of
noir
, a shining light of the
neo
world, experimenting with techniques whilst beating a true
film noir
heart.
The story is deliciously biting, pumped full of betrayals and double crosses, fatales and revenge, death and destruction. It even has a trick in the tale, ambiguity. It all plays out in a boldly coloured
Los Angeles
, the photography sparkles as
Mandel
lays an elegiacal and haunting musical score over the various stages of the drama. The talented
Boorman
has a field day with the elements of time, shunting various strands of the story around with sequences that at first glance seem out of place, but actually are perfect in context to what is narratively happening, the director gleefully toying with audience expectations. While suffice to say angles are tilted and close ups broadened to further style the pic.
Then there is
Walker
, a single minded phantom type character, played with grace and menace by
Marvin- who better to trawl the
Los Angeles
underworld with than
Marv
? This guy only wants what he is owed from the robbery, nothing more, nothing less, but if the meagre reward is not forthcoming, people are going to pay with something more precious than cash. His mission is both heroic and tragic, with
Boorman
asking the viewers to improvise their thought process about what it all inevitably means. Funding the fuel around
Marvin
are good players providing slink, sleaze and suspicion.
Deliberate pacing isn't for everyone, neither is stylised violence and stylish directorial trickery, but for those who dine at said tables,
Point Blank
, and
Walker
the man, is for you. 9/10
The
Spikeopath
Hospital Number
217 - who better to trawl the
-
Jessica_Rabbit69 — 10 years ago(August 23, 2015 09:28 AM)
Two days ago I started watching
Point Blank
and was very rudely interrupted 15 minutes into the movie. Harrumph
I'll get back to it in the next few days as this film has long been of my must-see list and Lee Marvin is one of my favorite actors.
Thanks for the nice write-up.
Jessica Rabbit
"I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way." -
Spikeopath — 10 years ago(August 23, 2015 12:47 PM)
and was very rudely interrupted 15 minutes into the movie
I have a gun you can loan for occasions like that
I'm on a bit of a
Marvin
kick at the moment as I literally have just finished his biography
Point Blank
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00B0SAF3S?keywords=lee marvin point&qid=1440358528&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1
.
Always been a massive fan of his work, one of the definitive macho presences of his era, and a big player in genres that many of us (yerself included of course) here adore. He very much had a few more strings to his bow than people gave him credit for.
Sit yerself down with
Point Blank
, turn off the phones, close the curtains and put a nice bottle of wine on ice - then enjoy
Marv
. His performance will not let you down, the film as a whole? Who knows, it's very divisive
The
SpikeopathHospital Number
217 -
Jessica_Rabbit69 — 10 years ago(August 24, 2015 02:29 PM)
"I have a gun you can loan for occasions like that"
Can't shoot the husband, it just isn't done.
I finally watched it all and loved it. It's very strange and I can see people disliking it. The film needs several viewings, I think, to take it all in. If someone is used to a movie spelling it all out for him, this one's not it.
The plot is simple enough: Walker (Marvin) and his friend Mal Reese steal a large amount of cash from a gambling operation on the deserted Alcatraz Island prison, but Reese double-crosses Walker, shoots him and leaves him for dead. Walker, not quite as dead as thought, is out for revenge
This movie is worth watching for Marvin alone. He plays the ultimate macho tough guy and certainly has the looks and physique to carry it off. He beautifully underplays his whole character, his feeling of betrayal, his love for his wife, his hate for the men who cheated him
Walker is without a doubt the typical tragic Noir hero who bad things just happen to and who desperately tries to understand why they happen to him. Fate sticks its foot out to trip him up and he is completely in the dark as to the motives of the betrayal but he keeps on going because the only way to go is forward, even if it leads him into ruin.
However, the highly stylized and "trippy" composition of the movie is purely 60's.
Point Blank
borrows quite heavily from the French New Wave cinema, mostly the unconventional narrative structure of many flashbacks and a fractured time-line that constantly jumps back and forth. These flashbacks are not just there to create a certain mood but they show us the fractured state of Walker's mind and that he is not necessarily coherent and rational. In fact he is anything but.
The big question the viewer is left with in the end is, is the plot reality or only a revenge fantasy? Is Marvin's revenge just a wistful dream he has in the seconds before he dies or is it really happening? Is Marvin's character real or is he just a ghost come back from the dead, an avenging angel of death, the embodiment of a higher abstract vengeance (much like Eastwood in
High Plains Drifter
). He seems to be like an apparition that can appear out of nowhere in different places.
To me, many things point in that direction. Marvin's character is portrayed as a mythical figure from the moment he fairly easily escapes Alcatraz though he has a few bullets in him. The impossibility of escaping, described by the guide on the tourist boat, is contrasted quite obviously with Marvin's apparent ease of getting away.
Angie Dickinson tells Walker at one point "You really did die on Alcatraz". She does not only mean it figuratively, it is meant literally.
The other conceptual device of the film's direction which points to Marvin being a ghost is that he never kills anyone himself. He is just there when death finally comes to his enemies, he is the catalyst who induces his enemies to kill each other, with Marvin standing by and watching.
In the end he winds up back on Alcatraz, the place where he died in the first place (at least I think that is where they are). He retreats back into the shadows without taking his money.
Edit and PS: How is his autobiography?
Jessica Rabbit
"I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way." -
Spikeopath — 10 years ago(August 25, 2015 05:35 PM)
Super read
Jess
, shall I forward it to
Jimcat
?
Can't shoot the husband, it just isn't done.
But you would be a heroine around here, the ultimate
femme fatale
So glad you loved it, as you say it's one that tends to take more viewings to really strike a chord, but strike it does.
What I find so striking about
Marvin's
portrayal of
Walker
is that he is so cool and calm, even under the clouds of violence, he just oozes charisma yet still be frightening with it (
Gibson
pulls this off in the remake as well).
Marvin
is not one you would consider of classic handsome looks (do you agree?), yet he's still sexy here, it's believable that
Angie Dickinson
would swoon for him.
Point Blank borrows quite heavily from the French New Wave cinema, mostly the unconventional narrative structure of many flashbacks and a fractured time-line that constantly jumps back and forth. These flashbacks are not just there to create a certain mood but they show us the fractured state of Walker's mind and that he is not necessarily coherent and rational. In fact he is anything but.
Yes, agree, and brilliantly put
Hee. I see you are buying into the ghost/dying dream angle
John Boorman
was often asked about this over the years, and in fact on one of the commentaries he refuses to answer -
Marvin
the same.
However >
The other conceptual device of the film's direction which points to Marvin being a ghost is that he never kills anyone himself. He is just there when death finally comes to his enemies, he is the catalyst who induces his enemies to kill each other, with Marvin standing by and watching.
But what of the violence he inflicts? Or the smashing up of the car with the car-lot owner sitting next to him?
It's a peach of a movie and the ambiguity is one of its main strengths, you and I still don't know for sure the truth. It could well be a dream, a vengeful spirit angle, or he is a superman who lived, escaped from Alcatraz and wasn't really after the money, he just wanted to see and prove he could get to the point where his money was delivered. Satisfaction guaranteed with a load of scum-bags delivered to hell in the process.
Point Blank
the biog.
The book is great, a little too short for my liking, but very informative and fascinating. The writer is very keen to downplay some of his well know escapades, he doesn't brush over them, it's just a case of
Marv
did this, it's not good, but he's a lovable rogue - which he was. The best parts are the circumstances with each film he made, what he thought and etc, with that I learned a lot of valuable stuff about something like
The Spikes Gang (1974)
, a film I loved anyway, but now knowing how he approached it makes me love it even more!
Then of course there is the whole
Michelle Triola
relationship, volatile, while the subsequent (bizarre) court case is totally engrossing. Very much recommended to
Marvin
fans.
The
SpikeopathHospital Number
217 -
Jessica_Rabbit69 — 10 years ago(August 26, 2015 09:26 AM)
"Super read Jess, shall I forward it to Jimcat?"
NO. He'll just say it's poor reviewing.
I like Jimcat, but he sure can be a grumpy one.:)
"But you would be a heroine around here, the ultimate femme fatale"
Yes, I know but after a while they get onto you, especially if killing husbands becomes a habit. And we all know how that plays out. So I've decided I'll rather be the good-bad-girl.
On a more "serious" note, yes I do buy into the ghost/dreaming angle. It just seems the most plausible explanation to me, which doesn't mean it actually is. About the violence Marvin inflicts, you got me there. I don't have an explanation for that.
Maybe for me the dream angle works because the whole movie has that psychedelic 60's thing going on. Trippy.
You are absolutely correct, the film's main strengths is its ambiguity. Frankly, no watertight case can be made for either interpretation, especially if the director himself refuses to comment.
I'll definitively read the Marvin bio, because YES, that man was sexy. Just like Charles Bronson, James Coburn, Robert Ryan, Richard Boone
Jessica Rabbit
"I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way." -
mgtbltp — 10 years ago(August 22, 2015 08:18 PM)
Here is my up to date chronological Neo Noir list of those I've seen:
Blast Of Silence (1961)
Underworld USA (1961)
Something Wild (1961)
Cape Fear (1962)
Experiment In Terror (1962)
Satan in High Heels (1962)
The Manchurian Candidate (1962)
Shock Corridor (1962)
Requiem for a Heavyweight (1962)
The Naked Kiss (1964)
The Pawnbroker (1964)
Brainstorm (1965)
Once A Thief (1965)
Harper (1966)
Mr. Buddwing (1966)
In Cold Blood (1967)
In The Heat Of The Night (1967)
Marlowe (1969)
The Honeymoon Killers (1970)
Shaft (1971)
Across 110th Street (1971)
The Getaway (1971)
Get Carter (1971)
Hickey & Boggs (1972)
Bring Me The Head Of Alfredo Garcia (1974)
The Nickel Ride (1974)
The Drowning Pool (1975)
Farewell My Lovely (1975)
Night Moves (1975)
Taxi Driver (1976)
Dressed to Kill (1980)
Union City (1980)
Body Heat (1981)
Thief (1981)
Blade Runner (1982)
Hammett (1982)
Blood Simple (1984)
To Live and Die in L.A. (1985)
Blue Velvet (1986)
Angel Heart (1987)
Frantic (1988)
Kill Me Again (1989)
The Grifters (1990)
The Kill-Off (1990)
The Hot Spot (1990)
Wild At Heart (1990)
Impulse (1990)
Dick Tracy (1990)
Delicatessen (1991)
Reservoir Dogs (1992)
Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (1992)
Romeo Is Bleeding (1993)
True Romance (1993)
The Wrong Man (1993)
The Last Seduction (1994)
Pulp Fiction (1994)
Se7en (1995)
Fargo (1996)
Mulholland Falls (1996)
Hit Me (1996)
Jackie Brown (1997)
L.A. Confidential (1997)
Lost Highway (1997)
This World, Then the Fireworks (1997)
Dark City (1998)
A Simple Plan (1998)
The Big Lebowski (1998)
Payback (1999)
Night Train (1999)
The Man Who Wasnt There (2001)
Mulholland Drive (2001)
Sin City (2005)
No Country For Old Men (2007)
Dark Country (2009)
The Killer Inside Me (2010)
Sin City: A Dame To Kill For (2014) -
Spikeopath — 10 years ago(August 23, 2015 06:01 AM)
You cutting off the original wave at 1959/1960 I presume. It's always tricky, you probably know me by now in that I say
film noir
never really stopped being made. The French made some stonking noirs in the 60s, traditional stuff, while
Blast of Silence
is to me pure first wave noir. Not trying to debate your list, I have 1960s films on my neo lists as well
Of your viewings so far I have not seen, though there are some I have seen but need a second viewing as it has been too long since last watched >
Underworld USA (1961) *
Something Wild (1961)
Satan in High Heels (1962)
The Manchurian Candidate (1962) *
The Naked Kiss (1964) *
The Pawnbroker (1964) *
Brainstorm (1965)
Once A Thief (1965)
Mr. Buddwing (1966)
The Honeymoon Killers (1970)
Across 110th Street (1971)
The Nickel Ride (1974)
The Drowning Pool (1975) *
Farewell My Lovely (1975) *
Union City (1980)
Thief (1981) *
Blue Velvet (1986) *
Kill Me Again (1989)
The Kill-Off (1990)
The Hot Spot (1990) *
Impulse (1990)
The Wrong Man (1993)
The Last Seduction (1994)
Hit Me (1996)
Lost Highway (1997) *
This World, Then the Fireworks (1997)
Night Train (1999)
Mulholland Drive (2001) *
Dark Country (2009)
The Killer Inside Me (2010) *
Sin City: A Dame To Kill For (2014)
*
Indicates ones I do have in my possession so will get a spin at some point.
The
SpikeopathHospital Number
217 -
mgtbltp — 10 years ago(August 23, 2015 05:21 PM)
You cutting off the original wave at 1959/1960 I presume. It's always tricky, you probably know me by now in that I say film noir never really stopped being made. The French made some stonking noirs in the 60s, traditional stuff, while Blast of Silence is to me pure first wave noir. Not trying to debate your list, I have 1960s films on my neo lists as well
I just went with the general Film Noir consensus for the end of Clasic Noir, but I agree in spirit with your thoughts, I'm more visually oriented so I tend give more weight to those films that have the strong noir visual stylistics than films that are
NIPO
s
N
oir
I
n
P
lot
O
nly, they'd have to be really darkly twisted in plot to reach my tipping point, otherwise I just consider them Crime genre and not on my personal Neo Noir list. If they are shot in B&W they get an extra point, watch
The Pawnbroker
with your Noir shaded glasses on ;-). I seem to remember
Lenny
(1974) as being noir-ish I'll have to chase it down to see.
Shaft
(1971) also was surprisingly quite Noir-ish and it's a PI film to boot.
I too have been searching Neo Noirs out using critic lists and other sources and have been both greatly disappointed and happily surprised. The last edition of
Film Noir The Encyclopedia
lists about 160 Neo Noirs I agreed with about 40 disagreed with 40, have found some that are not even listed, and have been plowing through the rest discovering both gems, flawed efforts, and BS (as a Neo Noir designation), i.e my last three gems were
Impulse
,
To Live And Die In LA
and
The Hot Spot
the flawed films were
8 Million Ways To Die
(comes off as too much a message film)
The Outfit
no Noir buzz (a shame with it's cast),
Payback
(the original release is great if it just had the original Directors ending it would be a gem) and the experimental
Suture
the BS as far as a Neo Noir designation were
Miami Vice
(more a action film, machine guns rarely go with noir) and the remake of
Kiss Of Death
I didn't get that Noir buzz from that one, but again that's just me.