Neo-Noir Quest 2
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Jessica_Rabbit69 — 10 years ago(August 26, 2015 09:26 AM)
"Super read Jess, shall I forward it to Jimcat?"
NO. He'll just say it's poor reviewing.
I like Jimcat, but he sure can be a grumpy one.:)
"But you would be a heroine around here, the ultimate femme fatale"
Yes, I know but after a while they get onto you, especially if killing husbands becomes a habit. And we all know how that plays out. So I've decided I'll rather be the good-bad-girl.
On a more "serious" note, yes I do buy into the ghost/dreaming angle. It just seems the most plausible explanation to me, which doesn't mean it actually is. About the violence Marvin inflicts, you got me there. I don't have an explanation for that.
Maybe for me the dream angle works because the whole movie has that psychedelic 60's thing going on. Trippy.
You are absolutely correct, the film's main strengths is its ambiguity. Frankly, no watertight case can be made for either interpretation, especially if the director himself refuses to comment.
I'll definitively read the Marvin bio, because YES, that man was sexy. Just like Charles Bronson, James Coburn, Robert Ryan, Richard Boone
Jessica Rabbit
"I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way." -
mgtbltp — 10 years ago(August 22, 2015 08:18 PM)
Here is my up to date chronological Neo Noir list of those I've seen:
Blast Of Silence (1961)
Underworld USA (1961)
Something Wild (1961)
Cape Fear (1962)
Experiment In Terror (1962)
Satan in High Heels (1962)
The Manchurian Candidate (1962)
Shock Corridor (1962)
Requiem for a Heavyweight (1962)
The Naked Kiss (1964)
The Pawnbroker (1964)
Brainstorm (1965)
Once A Thief (1965)
Harper (1966)
Mr. Buddwing (1966)
In Cold Blood (1967)
In The Heat Of The Night (1967)
Marlowe (1969)
The Honeymoon Killers (1970)
Shaft (1971)
Across 110th Street (1971)
The Getaway (1971)
Get Carter (1971)
Hickey & Boggs (1972)
Bring Me The Head Of Alfredo Garcia (1974)
The Nickel Ride (1974)
The Drowning Pool (1975)
Farewell My Lovely (1975)
Night Moves (1975)
Taxi Driver (1976)
Dressed to Kill (1980)
Union City (1980)
Body Heat (1981)
Thief (1981)
Blade Runner (1982)
Hammett (1982)
Blood Simple (1984)
To Live and Die in L.A. (1985)
Blue Velvet (1986)
Angel Heart (1987)
Frantic (1988)
Kill Me Again (1989)
The Grifters (1990)
The Kill-Off (1990)
The Hot Spot (1990)
Wild At Heart (1990)
Impulse (1990)
Dick Tracy (1990)
Delicatessen (1991)
Reservoir Dogs (1992)
Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (1992)
Romeo Is Bleeding (1993)
True Romance (1993)
The Wrong Man (1993)
The Last Seduction (1994)
Pulp Fiction (1994)
Se7en (1995)
Fargo (1996)
Mulholland Falls (1996)
Hit Me (1996)
Jackie Brown (1997)
L.A. Confidential (1997)
Lost Highway (1997)
This World, Then the Fireworks (1997)
Dark City (1998)
A Simple Plan (1998)
The Big Lebowski (1998)
Payback (1999)
Night Train (1999)
The Man Who Wasnt There (2001)
Mulholland Drive (2001)
Sin City (2005)
No Country For Old Men (2007)
Dark Country (2009)
The Killer Inside Me (2010)
Sin City: A Dame To Kill For (2014) -
Spikeopath — 10 years ago(August 23, 2015 06:01 AM)
You cutting off the original wave at 1959/1960 I presume. It's always tricky, you probably know me by now in that I say
film noir
never really stopped being made. The French made some stonking noirs in the 60s, traditional stuff, while
Blast of Silence
is to me pure first wave noir. Not trying to debate your list, I have 1960s films on my neo lists as well
Of your viewings so far I have not seen, though there are some I have seen but need a second viewing as it has been too long since last watched >
Underworld USA (1961) *
Something Wild (1961)
Satan in High Heels (1962)
The Manchurian Candidate (1962) *
The Naked Kiss (1964) *
The Pawnbroker (1964) *
Brainstorm (1965)
Once A Thief (1965)
Mr. Buddwing (1966)
The Honeymoon Killers (1970)
Across 110th Street (1971)
The Nickel Ride (1974)
The Drowning Pool (1975) *
Farewell My Lovely (1975) *
Union City (1980)
Thief (1981) *
Blue Velvet (1986) *
Kill Me Again (1989)
The Kill-Off (1990)
The Hot Spot (1990) *
Impulse (1990)
The Wrong Man (1993)
The Last Seduction (1994)
Hit Me (1996)
Lost Highway (1997) *
This World, Then the Fireworks (1997)
Night Train (1999)
Mulholland Drive (2001) *
Dark Country (2009)
The Killer Inside Me (2010) *
Sin City: A Dame To Kill For (2014)
*
Indicates ones I do have in my possession so will get a spin at some point.
The
SpikeopathHospital Number
217 -
mgtbltp — 10 years ago(August 23, 2015 05:21 PM)
You cutting off the original wave at 1959/1960 I presume. It's always tricky, you probably know me by now in that I say film noir never really stopped being made. The French made some stonking noirs in the 60s, traditional stuff, while Blast of Silence is to me pure first wave noir. Not trying to debate your list, I have 1960s films on my neo lists as well
I just went with the general Film Noir consensus for the end of Clasic Noir, but I agree in spirit with your thoughts, I'm more visually oriented so I tend give more weight to those films that have the strong noir visual stylistics than films that are
NIPO
s
N
oir
I
n
P
lot
O
nly, they'd have to be really darkly twisted in plot to reach my tipping point, otherwise I just consider them Crime genre and not on my personal Neo Noir list. If they are shot in B&W they get an extra point, watch
The Pawnbroker
with your Noir shaded glasses on ;-). I seem to remember
Lenny
(1974) as being noir-ish I'll have to chase it down to see.
Shaft
(1971) also was surprisingly quite Noir-ish and it's a PI film to boot.
I too have been searching Neo Noirs out using critic lists and other sources and have been both greatly disappointed and happily surprised. The last edition of
Film Noir The Encyclopedia
lists about 160 Neo Noirs I agreed with about 40 disagreed with 40, have found some that are not even listed, and have been plowing through the rest discovering both gems, flawed efforts, and BS (as a Neo Noir designation), i.e my last three gems were
Impulse
,
To Live And Die In LA
and
The Hot Spot
the flawed films were
8 Million Ways To Die
(comes off as too much a message film)
The Outfit
no Noir buzz (a shame with it's cast),
Payback
(the original release is great if it just had the original Directors ending it would be a gem) and the experimental
Suture
the BS as far as a Neo Noir designation were
Miami Vice
(more a action film, machine guns rarely go with noir) and the remake of
Kiss Of Death
I didn't get that Noir buzz from that one, but again that's just me. -
Spikeopath — 10 years ago(August 25, 2015 03:38 PM)
Masquerade (1988)
Don't have this one on my lists so I have added it. I thought
Lowe
was excellent in
Curtis Hanson's
under valued
neo
Bad Influence (1990)
, so it will be interesting to see
Lowe's
progression from 88
neo
to
90
neo.
He did a comedy in between the two
The
SpikeopathHospital Number
217 -
Spikeopath — 10 years ago(August 25, 2015 06:28 PM)
Yep, I'm a visual guy as well, with fatalism and pessimism added to seal the deal. I'm very intrigued by
The Pawnbroker
, often cited as
Steiger's
best performance, I have hunted it down for that reason. Never seen it enter the
neo
lists, I don't think, but I'm MORE than happy to stick the
noir
goggles on for it
I too have been searching Neo Noirs out using critic lists and other sources and have been both greatly disappointed and happily surprised. The last edition of Film Noir The Encyclopedia lists about 160 Neo Noirs I agreed with about 40 disagreed with 40
I'm in the same boat. The
FNE
lists the
Bridget Fonda
remake of
Nikita
,
Point of No Return (1993)
, as a
neo
. I watched it last night and don't really think it qualifies. There's some identity stuff going on, maybe even as they put forward, some oedipal suggestions at work, but it's really just a good honest action film with a spunky femme at the helm. I'll still add it to the review roster, but I'm not convinced myself.
I'll forward
The Hot Spot
for a viewing since It's hot topic now. I really like
Payback
, more so the D/C.
Kiss of Death
, the remake's screenplay is just too safe, otherwise I think it's got some bite, with
Caruso's
protag a classic
noir
character.
The
SpikeopathHospital Number
217 -
Spikeopath — 10 years ago(August 26, 2015 03:11 PM)
Point of No Return (1993)
New Dawn - New Day - New Life.
Point of No Return
(AKA:
The Assassin
) is directed by
John Badham
and written by
Robert Getchell
and
Alexander Seros
. It stars
Bridget Fonda
,
Gabriel Byrne
,
Dermot Mulroney
,
Anne Bancroft
and
Harvey Keitel
. Music is by
Hans Zimmer
and cinematography (
Panavision/Technicolor
) by
Michael Ferris
and
Michael Watkins
.
When drug addict
Maggie Hayward
(
Fonda
) kills a policeman in cold blood, she is promptly sentenced to death by lethal injection. But maybe there is an out? A chance to work for the government?
Why so serious?
A remake of
Luc Besson's
Nikita (1990)
, this was always going to suffer the usual remake taunts of why bother? Was it necessary etc?
Point of No Return
is a good honest action movie, it has style to burn, nifty photography and likable leading actors. The action is well staged and thrilling - and
Hong Kongish
in style, and bubbling away in the writing are themes of identity, absent parents and a delicately off-kilter oedipal angle. The
Nina Simone
soundtrack is terrific, while
Zimmer
works around
Nina's
songs with an aural assuredness that grabs the attention.
It doesn't push any boundaries, and although it has been noted in some
neo-noir
circles, it is only a borderline entry in that style of film making. But if kinetic is a good word for you, and ultra violence gives you a shot in the arm, then
Bridget
and her guns are definitely worth a first date at least. 6/10
The
SpikeopathHospital Number
217 -
mgtbltp — 10 years ago(August 28, 2015 07:05 PM)
A couple of weeks ago I watched
Criss Cross
(1949) today I watched
The Underneath
(1995) it's a good way to compare Noir with bad Neo Noir. It's almost a shot by shot remake with the chronology shuffled about a bit but boy does the story suffer for the tweaks.. The Steve & Anna characters called Mike & Allison in The Underneath are given more of a backstory. In the post feminist world Anna/Allison is more sympathetic its Mike who has done her wrong in the past piling up gamboling debts and skipping in the night when his luck turns.
Steve/Mike's policeman friend is now also his brother. His mother is recently re-married to the armored car company employee who gets Mike the job. It really lacks from these changes and the uninteresting color cinematography. The only bright spot was the Dundee character who had a remarkable resemblance to Classic Noir actor Dane Clark. For me its a Crime film that's a
NIPO
,
N
oir
I
n
P
lot
O
nly. 6/10 -
mgtbltp — 10 years ago(August 30, 2015 02:59 PM)
"NIPO, Noir In Plot Only."
On an unrelated note to the film I like that phrase which of course describes Neo-Noir best.
Well Jess, I'm very visually oriented the so called Neo Noir would have to be extremely twisted to off set it's lack of Noir stylistics. That said these below are either nicely visually styled and twisted, or extremely twisted in a good enough way to make my list.
.
The
True
NEO-NOIR LIST (a chronological film list (a work in progress) I just added
Blink
(1994))
Blast Of Silence (1961)
Underworld USA (1961)
Something Wild (1961)
Cape Fear (1962)
Experiment In Terror (1962)
Satan in High Heels (1962)
The Manchurian Candidate (1962)
Shock Corridor (1962)
Requiem for a Heavyweight (1962)
The Naked Kiss (1964)
The Pawnbroker (1964)
Brainstorm (1965)
Once A Thief (1965)
Harper (1966)
Mr. Buddwing (1966)
In Cold Blood (1967)
In The Heat Of The Night (1967)
Marlowe (1969)
The Honeymoon Killers (1970)
Shaft (1971)
Across 110th Street (1971)
The Getaway (1971)
Get Carter (1971)
Hickey & Boggs (1972)
Bring Me The Head Of Alfredo Garcia (1974)
The Nickel Ride (1974)
The Drowning Pool (1975)
Farewell My Lovely (1975)
Night Moves (1975)
Taxi Driver (1976)
Dressed to Kill (1980)
Union City (1980)
Body Heat (1981)
Thief (1981)
Blade Runner (1982)
Hammett (1982)
Blood Simple (1984)
To Live and Die in L.A. (1985)
Blue Velvet (1986)
Angel Heart (1987)
Frantic (1988)
Kill Me Again (1989)
The Grifters (1990)
The Kill-Off (1990)
The Hot Spot (1990)
Wild At Heart (1990)
Impulse (1990)
Dick Tracy (1990)
Delicatessen (1991)
Reservoir Dogs (1992)
Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (1992)
Romeo Is Bleeding (1993)
True Romance (1993)
The Wrong Man (1993)
The Last Seduction (1994)
Pulp Fiction (1994)
Blink (1994)
Se7en (1995)
Fargo (1996)
Mulholland Falls (1996)
Hit Me (1996)
Jackie Brown (1997)
L.A. Confidential (1997)
Lost Highway (1997)
This World, Then the Fireworks (1997)
Dark City (1998)
A Simple Plan (1998)
The Big Lebowski (1998)
Payback (1999)
Night Train (1999)
The Man Who Wasnt There (2001)
Mulholland Drive (2001)
Sin City (2005)
No Country For Old Men (2007)
Dark Country (2009)
The Killer Inside Me (2010)
Sin City: A Dame To Kill For (2014) -
Jessica_Rabbit69 — 10 years ago(August 31, 2015 09:05 AM)
"the so called Neo Noir would have to be extremely twisted to off set it's lack of Noir stylistics."
I agree with that.
This is a great list, most of the 60's, 70's and 80's ones you mention I have seen and liked. Interesting to put
In the Heat of the Night
as Neo-Noir, but I can see it.
I have been trying to track down
Hickey & Boggs
for a long time. No luck as of yet. It is on youtube, but there seems to be something wrong with the print.
Blink
I saw when it came out and liked it a lot.
Se7en
is a movie I cannot stomach. That was a bit too much.
Jessica Rabbit
"I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way." -
mgtbltp — 10 years ago(August 31, 2015 11:02 AM)
RE:
In The Heat Of The Night
the menu on the 40th anniversary edition has a B&W Noir homage. You get, in your face Noir, just from the opening credits, then the rest of the sets are what I like to call Edward Hopper-esque Noir. It's gets so hyped as a landmark/breakthrough film that its not noticed how Noir it is the same goes for
Shaft
, it practically started the Blaxploitation craze but its a solid Neo Noir PI flick and not at all like the cheap flood of over the top quasi imitations that followed, check it out too.
I get a lot of hard to find DVD films through Ebay (
Hickey & Boggs
,
Romeo Is Bleeding
) they may be from Hong Kong, Thailand, etc. but if they are R0 and have English listed as one of the languages I've had no problem. The DVDs are just default set to whatever the native language of country of origin is, you just go to the menu click English, and then click no subtitles.
Oldies.com has a good DVD copy of
The Kill-Off
which is one of the best adaptations of a Jim Thompson book.
My next option (lucky for me I still have a VHS player) is VHS tapes which have a lot of titles that still haven't made it to DVD, and may never. I got
Delusion
, and
This World Then The Fireworks
that way. -
Jessica_Rabbit69 — 10 years ago(August 31, 2015 01:07 PM)
"It's gets so hyped as a landmark/breakthrough film that its not noticed how Noir it is the same goes for Shaft,"
Very true. I also looked at those movies simply as landmark movies, with the Blaxploitation films being the more fun version of serious ones. My fault.
I don't have the 40th anniversary DVD of
In the Heat of the Night
, but the B&W Noir homage sounds great.
Shaft
is a fun movie and I even like the new version.
There still seem to be quite a lot of people who have their old VHS players. Mine went out a long time ago, but maybe I should have held on to it.
Jessica Rabbit
"I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way."