The William Holden-Faye Dunaway romance subplot is trite and irrelevent
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denbeez — 14 years ago(September 30, 2011 10:29 AM)
I recall Faye Dunaway on her episode of "Inside The Actors Studio" about 15 years ago revealing that she asked Paddy Chayefsky why Diana was written as a woman, as this choice was not inherent to the basic plot.
His answer was that he made the character female
because
he felt that this piece needed a love story in order to make it more relatableabout actual humans rather than entirely about esoteric ideas and moralism.
In a way, I think that having Max Shumacher enter into an illicit affair humanized him a bit by giving him a big characher flawotherwise he might have come off as being too "sanctified."
Even at that, we were (to some degree) able to empathize with his "last stand" against the onset of old age that his affair with Diana represented.
Emoticons are for people who haven't learned to express themselves with actual words. -
chapmanshomer — 14 years ago(October 26, 2011 06:48 AM)
Then I think that Paddy Chayefsky didn't have the courage of his convictions. It clearly is mostly a film about esoteric ideas and moralism, and it seems that he got scared and inserted a romantic subplot awkwardly into it, so that people could 'relate' to it. It strikes me as a mistake, seeing as most people cherish the film for its esoteric ideas and moralism, not the Faye Dunaway-william Holden romance
"truly, my Satan, thou art but a dunce"-William Blake
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Elder_Yautija — 13 years ago(August 17, 2012 11:47 AM)
I agree with you 100%. I also think what the writer feared would push people's attention away is actually the very core of the story, what made the film stand out, and he should have just focused on that, instead of trying to please the viewer with a "love story" which is unnecessary and out of place.
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Haynerator — 12 years ago(November 18, 2013 04:19 PM)
I think it's simpler than all that.
Selling a script has always been hard, and I have this feeling that his pitch suffered from some of the themes of his film.
The vast majority of screenplays in the most general sense have some kind of 'love plot' in there to a degree, purely for the sake of human interest and relatability. But I don't think it was written for that, I think it was written to sell it to people who thought those aspects would help it sell to more people.
I hope that makes sense.
If that's the case, then in some ways, you could say it adds to the satire of the whole thing, haha.
http://www.haydenpurcell.com -
Elder_Yautija — 12 years ago(November 18, 2013 04:46 PM)
It makes perfectly sense. I agree with what you say, and actually that doesn't really differ that much with what I previously stated. The only difference is that you seem to find that alright (or at least you don't seem to have a big problem with it) while I thought that it ruined the whole picture for me.
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roreyking — 9 years ago(August 16, 2016 06:25 PM)
It clearly is mostly a film about esoteric ideas and moralism
That's funny. The "Network" I saw was about the corruption of television.
seeing as [sic] most people cherish the film for its esoteric ideas and moralism
Really? You know thathow?
OP: you haven't the faintest notion of what you're talking about. Chayefsky contrasts the profit and ratings obsession of the then-current generation of media management with the commitment to responsible reporting of their predecessors. That dying breed is represented by Holden, who has the courage to stand up to Hackett and is fired for it. Hes briefly seduced by the younger, ruthless Dunaway, but goes back to his wife. Their affair reflects and expands the generational contrast of the corruption theme.
Another figure from the good-old Edward R. Murrow days is Beale, whos gone nuts. Only an insane newsman could flourish in the new dystopia of Chayefskys UBS.
Did you really miss all that? -
cookiela2001 — 14 years ago(October 05, 2011 04:54 PM)
Well, at least with another character getting that intimate with Dunaway, we get further into the Diana character than if we just saw her at work. If we just saw her in the office and not in her personal life, we wouldn't really grasp that her personal life is sooooooooooooo empty and sterile.
Also, the William Hoilden character isn't really THAT interesting on his ownso if he had even less territory to cover, he'd be really really blank and one-note. -
aidanol — 14 years ago(November 27, 2011 02:55 PM)
I felt that it was to show that even the best of us can be enchanted by someone, or something, that is completely ruthless and self-interested, if it is packaged attractively. It was a metaphor of how TV manipulates us into getting what it wants.
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Errington_92 — 13 years ago(January 16, 2013 07:11 AM)
I think the Max-Diana relationship is meant to be a metaphor for what passes as television entertainment.
I can't say it was a two way metaphor for television entertainment. The metaphor was focused on Diana's attitude being formed from growing up with television. Diana had been desensitised by television to such an extent that she was incapable of real emotion.
"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not". -
BobbyDupea — 10 years ago(May 29, 2015 05:55 AM)
I agree. The romance was important, and casting one of the bad characters as a woman was unusual and and courageous at the time. Holden was seduced by her, just as we are seduced by exciting, shlock tv and popularity, rather than content and quality. Dunaway was an important character as the representative of everything corrupting and destructive about seeking ratings rather than quality - casting a woman in that role was unusual and a good move that dovetailed nicely with the romance/seduction of Holden's integrity and human warmth.
My real name is Jeff -
GuyOnTheLeft — 10 years ago(September 09, 2015 02:19 AM)
Well said. It's the scene of Holden leaving his wife that doesn't quite fit IMO.
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BrianN — 14 years ago(December 02, 2011 10:32 PM)
I believe
most
romantic subplots are worthless, slowing down the plot and wasting time. But it's still Holden & Dunaway, a powerhouse box office draw. The pairing probably pulled in a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't watch a self-reflecting morality tale. -
PlatinumScreen — 14 years ago(December 30, 2011 04:38 PM)
i see your point, but if this romance had not occurred, then we wouldn't have that brilliant response by max's wife when he told her of the affair and later max's equally brilliant words to diana when he left her. those two sections of dialogue were incredible and masterful writing about human emotions
of more importance, however, is if the romance had not occurred, then diana would possibly have not been exposed as a cold, insensitive, less-than-human being outside the confines of her work which adds to the whole theme of the movie. -
sstack-3 — 14 years ago(January 11, 2012 08:03 AM)
Yeah, I think it really showed just how cold and emotionally detached Diana wasand how Max came to the realization that he had mistaken infatuation for love and had hurt those who really loved him in the process. That all set in on him when he and Diana started to live together and I think he realized, too, just how much his friend Howard was being used by these same type of people.