The William Holden-Faye Dunaway romance subplot is trite and irrelevent
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madpogue — 13 years ago(February 15, 2013 04:01 PM)
Evidently the Academy didn't think the affair, or at least Max's confession to Louise about it, was superfluous. For that scene, Beatrice Straight's part was the shortest screen-time role in history for one that received a Best Supporting Actress or Actor award.
Also, Diana's banal chatter during the cabin scene fleshed out (no pun intended) her character, and Max's blow-up in her apartment toward the end helped us to know him more fully.
As to the "tone", I think it helps a great deal for a movie not to carry the same tone, whether it's satirical, romantic, high suspense, etc., through every scene; it's just more "natural" to change it up for one or two (or more) scenes. Trivia take-away - Lumet made it a point to be "in charge" of the confession scene, telling Chayefsky (in effect) "You know irony and satire, but I know divorce". -
Mr_Nin — 13 years ago(March 08, 2013 05:48 PM)
OP yep you are missing something. The relationship reflects everything else that's going on. The caring, benevolent Holden, enticed by the exciting but ultimately shallow and emotionless Dunaway. News Vs Entertainment, Socialism Vs Business, Truth Vs Money.
"If you haven't watched it til the end, you don't know what you're talking about" -
gilper653 — 12 years ago(December 07, 2013 04:25 PM)
The idea behind the affair was to show us the cold nature of Diane. She was incapable of love. Then it was not a surprise that she suggested and coordinated the assassination of Howard. We have to remember that when she suggested the affair to Max her real motive was to sell him her revolutionary ideas.
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brand_name — 12 years ago(December 29, 2013 10:50 PM)
agreed with O.P. Plus I did not like how the older man got on his high horse at the end and told her she was gonna be alone and sad. I mean we just saw this guy throw away a 25 year marriage, and he's supposed to be the virtuous one. Just strange dynamics with those 2 characters, in my opinion
IT is a great book -
cookiela2001 — 10 years ago(May 20, 2015 11:09 PM)
"I did not like how the older man got on his high horse at the end and told her she was gonna be alone and sad. I mean we just saw this guy throw away a 25 year marriage, and he's supposed to be the virtuous one?"
That made me laugh : ) You're absolutely right. -
SloppyJ30 — 11 years ago(May 15, 2014 08:03 AM)
I always thought of the affair as Max's surrendering to the fate he's always believed destined for . . becoming the clich. Read or go listen to the bulk of his dialogue in the conversation with his wife:
"Here we are going through the obligatory middle-of-Act-Two scorned wife throws peccant husband out scene. But, no fear, I'll come back home in the end. All her plot outlines have me leaving her and returning to you because the audience won't buy a rejection of the happy American family."
Then later, with Diana:
"It's a happy ending, Diana. Wayward husband comes to his senses, returns to his wife with whom he has built a long and sustaining love. Heartless young woman left alone in her arctic desolation. Music up with a swell. Final commercial. And here are a few scenes from next week's show."
As he shreds Diana for being shaped by television into a caricature who is incapable of behaving or feeling in any other way than she does, he is forced to acknowlege that he's just as bound by his conditioning. He's a slave to convention . . a knowing one, but a slave nonetheless.
From Chayefski's POV, I'd say he was doing anything but pandering by including a romantic subplot, as some here seem to believe. That's absurd. Nothing about the affair would be appealing to the type of viewer who would feel they need romance in every film. If anything, the cold, rote, perfunctory way the affair proceeds is more of a middle finger to audiences: "Here's your damn romance; you know you wanted it, so how'd you like it?"I have meddled with the primal forces of nature and I will atone.
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ecjones1951 — 11 years ago(September 20, 2014 11:22 PM)
spoilers
I couldn't agree with you more, Sloppy. This subplot is designed to show that, as Diana says to Max at their first dinner, she's inept at everything but her work. It's pathetic and horrifying to see that she can
never
turn it off. The babbling about ratings and shares throughout the least sexy sex scene of all time may be a turnoff to the audience, but not to Max. He is flattered, as most men his age would be, that a younger woman finds him attractive. He twists the knife though, with his wife when he tells her he's grateful to be able to feel anything at all.
So, we learn that the side of Diana we see at work is the only side she has. The rootlessness Max feels at having been let go, coupled with the reminder of his mortality that attending so many funeral throws in his face, drives him straight into Diana's icy grip. What drew him to her is what drives him away. "You're madness, Diana." Yeah, but what does that make him? A journalist of the old school with a certain gravitas, whose power has been stripped away, only to be handed to his young, ruthless girlfriend. Her taking over the news division includes her plans to turn it into something that predates FOX and TLC by 30 years. Maybe Max should be appalled and outraged, but he lets go his pride and his principles for a life with Diana, one that's joyless, single-minded and frenetic because it's scripted that way.
Your typical romantic subplot has the characters talking about almost everything except work, going to romantic places, petting dogs and sharing cute conversation. This leads to gauzy, tasteful sex scenes, and yeah, this would be superfluous. -
Bobtheawesome — 10 years ago(May 25, 2015 05:11 PM)
I couldn't disagree more with the OP. The subplot is a major accessory to both Max and Diana's character development. It shows just how obsessive, cold, and empty Diana is, and also serves to portray Max's own flaws and insecurities, making him seem like less of a hero. The way that these characters are portrayed definitely contains a lot of the commentary Lumet and Chayefsky were trying to communicate, about how people are shaped by such a manic, competitive, ruthless culture.
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fanaticita — 10 years ago(June 17, 2015 01:28 PM)
I agree. The romance gave the audience more insight into Max and Diana. . . the vulnerability of both. While Diana is like a drill sergeant during most of the film, she is actually not capable of emotional relationships. Why? Max is not afraid to let his emotions guide him in most instances regardless of the outcome. He's of the age where it is time to let real feelings be known about everything, before it is too late.
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Ricardo-36 — 9 years ago(April 13, 2016 06:49 PM)
The only reason the "romantic" subplot exists is to paint Diana as a mindless drone built from the TV-based society. To have her be a bad counterpart to Max and be preachy about it. I thought it was distracting and cheap.
"You keep him in here, and make sure HE doesn't leave!"