Does the book explain why her mother abused her and disliked her?
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MalContentUSA — 17 years ago(June 29, 2008 10:01 PM)
In a nutshell, Sybil's mother was a schizophrenic who had been ambivilent at best about having a child at all. She was capable at times of being rather nurturing, but at her worst should not have been entrusted with a pet rock, let alone a baby. She had herself been frustrated in her dreams of a musical career, and it's suggested on another thead that her later abuse of her daughter was an ironic and horrifying outlet for her creative side. Sybil's father was, in his own much later words, "so overwhelmed by Hattie" that he simply found it easier to turn a blind eye. Grandma's non-intervention is a bit of an interesting case. She did have a genuinely good and loving relationship with Sybil, but also maintained a "no interference" policy when it came to how her son and daughter-in-law chose to raise the child. I suspect this was due to a combination of advaincing age, having been bullied herself by her husband, and the very different attitudes about interfering in a parent/child relationship.
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shoyt_2001 — 17 years ago(July 11, 2008 01:50 AM)
I think you are right about the Grandmother not knowing about the abuse. Hattie/Mattie seemed to have kept a "closed shop" in that the abuse seemed to happen in selected places which were designed to keep her separate from other eyes. Grandma may have had hints but nothing that she could put her finger on to say for sure there was abuse.
Grandma was is a sheltered position within the house due to her husband being so outspoken and her own illness. If Grandpa intimidated the other household members, he surely intimidated his own wife even more. -
richard-III — 12 years ago(January 12, 2014 05:02 PM)
There's no evidence of that either. You're probably repeating journalist Debbie Nathan's words, who in 2011 published her own interpretations of the facts, of which many were already known when the Schreiber book came out in 1973. Alternative reads about Sybil are 'Sybil In Her Own Words (2011) and 'After Sybil' (2013).
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and arthouse. A film is a goddam film." -
gwdevil25 — 10 years ago(January 14, 2016 09:16 AM)
I would hope that someone YOU know and love is protected from the war of the world like abuse. Your pish posh attitude : it didn't happen! reminds me of people denying the horrors of World War 2 in Germany.
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eileen-guthrie555 — 9 years ago(September 19, 2016 05:43 PM)
Studying psychology for almost a decade, Sybil and her story was a subject widely covered over those years. All the professors and PhD's in psychology had different takes on the case some agreed with Dr. Wilburs diagnosis but more were against her diagnosis of dissociative identity disorder or what Dr Wilber called then Multiple Personality Disorder. The fact that Sybil (Shirley Ardell Mason) was physically, verbally and emotionally abused by her mother Martha Mason (Mattie) and possibly sexually abused as well, but Mattie was eventually diagnosed with schizophrenia. Schizophrenics often suffer from additional mental health illnesses such as anxiety disorders, major depressive illness, manic depression (bipolar disorder), substance use disorder and what we call obsessive compulsion personality disorder now, as well as seizures, which some psychologist and psychiatrist account for "Sybil" blackouts and no memory of the event. It can be symptoms that typically come on gradually, begin in young adulthood to late teens, and last a long time. Shirley's mother never got help she needed. Her father, Walter Wingfield Mason was a weak man afraid of his wife rages and strange behavior, he adored his daughter but feared his wife. Both of her parents were restrict Seventh-Day Adventist and raised their daughter in the same restrictive religion, and that also isolated her from her peers and classmates. There is no doubt that Shirley was abused, just a lot of doubt about Dr Wilbur's diagnosis.
Dr. Wilber practiced Freudian psychology and some of Freud's theories of three types of personality are id, ego and superego. According to Freud's psychoanalytic theory, our personality develops through a series of stages, each characterized by a certain internal psychological conflict. Freud's theories were at their height in the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's until the early 70's. Freud's ideas have since been met with criticism, in part because of his singular focus on sexuality as the main driver of human personality development. Now, 86% of psychologist and psychiatrist no longer believe in Freuds theories. Schizophrenia and other mental illnesses are heredity. So, Shirley most likely was born with it and then developed other mental illnesses from her mothers abuse.
Its a shame that Shirley didnt live in our time, instead of drugged with barbiturate/phenobarbital. Although currently there is no cure for schizophrenia, it can be treated and managed with medication, diet and supportive therapies. She couldve lead a fairly normal lifestyle. Balancing her sugar intake, adding essential omega-3 and -6 fats, increasing her antioxidants and taking vitamins and supplements she couldve lead a normal life, gotten married and had children. Shirley relied too heavily on Dr Wilbur medications and therapy until Wilbur died from complications of Parkinson's Disease. She lived in isolation with only one person to care for her after Wilbur's death. She was an amazing artist though. -
fiatlux-1 — 17 years ago(August 29, 2008 11:21 PM)
But the grandmother surely heard the hollering, and saw the injuries on Sybil that are not easily "explained away" by accidents such as: broken larynx, dislocated shoulder, black eyes.
But I do agree: The grandmother probably had the old-time views of staying out of parents' "business" .
And I also think she was afraid of Hattie in a way (understandable) and was afraid of even being booted out of the house, her being sick and alone may have made her even more afraid.
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RCeditor — 17 years ago(August 30, 2008 06:48 AM)
It's been a while since I read the book, but I do remember that Sybil's mother had been schizophrenic. The book described some of her catatonic periods. Sybil's father was very passive, and not involved in the child rearing of Sybil. His own father had been a bully if memory serves, a fire-and-brimstone type preacher.
Hattie had no business caring for a child. She was extremely sick. I can recall horrible descriptions of abuse towards Sybil, including molestation by her mother. I remember a section that described Sybil's father coming into her bedroom in his robe, but with his privates exposed.
Sybil was described as being "depleted". Meanwhile, her different personalities took on different aspects of her true self and her emotions. There is a chart somewhere in the book with the names of all the personalities. One of the 2 males was named "Sid".
I read the book before I watched the movie. To me, the movie is more confusing simply because the viewer can't read descriptions of all the different personalities.
-The Divine Ms Slim
"I make him an offer he no refuse" -
indy_go_blue44 — 17 years ago(August 30, 2008 11:57 AM)
Her mother didn't really molest her in the sense of trying to arouse Sybil or herself, but she did torture her by inserting various objects into her vagina. There's indications that Willard might have felt some sexual feelings toward her (like stopping her from putting salve on his feet because it probably made him "feel funny") but he and Hattie had relations in front of her for at least 9 years until she was finally moved into her own room.
But yeh, Hattie was unfit to be a mother, at least without close supervision and intervention; unfortunately the small town mentality and social backwardness of the time precluded that.
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RCeditor — 17 years ago(August 30, 2008 02:50 PM)
I appreciate this, indy. Now I am remembering more sections from the book. Such as Sybil being in the bedroom with her parents till she was 9 or so, and the parents being sexually active in front of her. I'd also forgotten her father's name - Willard.
I recall that one of the objects Hattie had inserted into Sybil was a knife handle. In the book there were illustrations done by Sybil, and I know there was some artwork that contained pictures of knives. In particular, I recall a large hand with the index finger extended, which was supposed to have represented her mother's hand. That was why the molestation theme stuck out in my mind; the picture looked eerie to me. I think the term "torture" is very appropriate.
-The Divine Ms Slim
"I make him an offer he no refuse" -
eileen-guthrie555 — 9 years ago(September 19, 2016 06:44 PM)
Never happened Both parents were Seventh-Day Adventist who only use sex for procreation. Dr Wilbur was a Freudian psychiatrist who believed everything is sexual, just like Freud and Dr Wilbur took the things that Shirley (Sybil) said and misinterpreted her dreams while she was under hypnosis. All of this has been debunked by the psychologist two decades ago.
There is no doubt that Sybil was sexually abused but only at the hands of her mother, Mattie. While her father Walter was a very passive man fearful of his wife strange behavior and rages and being a member of the Seventh-Day Adventist believed his wife was possessed by the devil. Both parents came from small Midwestern communities who were unsophisticated to the ways of the world. Because Mattie's illness went undiagnosed for too long, she remained a schizophrenic until the day she died and they didn't have the knowledge in how to treat someone with a severe mental illness at that time. Kind of sad life. -
gilmored_85 — 17 years ago(January 15, 2009 11:46 PM)
She did molest Sybil, inserting objects forcibly into a persons vagina or rectum is molestation/rape and is considered so in most if not every state and Hattie (Mattie) would also insert her finger into Sybil's (Shirly's) Vaginal along with the other objects, so, her mother DID molest her. Molestation unfortunaly can come in many forms, it's not just about innapropriate touching, in my opinion (having worked with survivors of sexual abuse)having Sybil sleep in her parents bedroom while they were having sex was a form of sexual abuse, especilly when her father (naked) put her over his knee and spanked her for interupting. Hattie also sexualy abused other children, in the book Sybil (Shirly Mason in reality) recounts her mom playing "horsey" with the neighborhood girls, and one incident Sybil saw her mother on her bed naked with a infant boy between her legs. Hattie (Mattie) was in no way capable of taking care of Sybil. The sexual abuse began as early as when Sybil was six months old. I just graduated with a Bacholar's in Social Work and this book has shocked me to my core, even though I have an undedrstanding of Mental illness I have a hard time having any sypathy for Hattie.
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renatom1 — 17 years ago(January 18, 2009 08:34 PM)
I believe what 'indy go blue44' means is that Hattie did not abuse Sybil to achieve any kind of sexual thrill; she did it because her schizophrenia made her do odd things. Perhaps, Hattie's deranged mind lead her to believe little men were trapped inside Sybil's vagina. There have been cases of schizophrenics tearing out their heating systems or digging large holes in their backyards because they become convinced men are trapped inside them and need to be let out. It's weird, but that's why we call them crazy and why many of them need to be in an institution, far away from people and other living things.
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zombiesushi — 15 years ago(August 12, 2010 11:52 AM)
I have to agree that it was the illness, and not the desire for sexual gratification that lead to the molestation, I just finished reading the book and recall that on several occasions Hattie would keep saying to herself, "I have to do it!" over and over while she abused and tortured Sybil in various ways, and, once done, she would say, "I did it!" triumphantly as she laughed to herself, very creepy! The abuses she inflicted upon Sybil all have a very ritualistic manner to them, and once the ritual was carried out the compulsion would go away for a time. Usually I can sympathize with an individual who is so clearly ill, but Hattie should have been made to suffer every injury she ever inflicted on her daughter and then been left in some cold dark hole somewhere for the rest of her life. Anybody who could do that to a kid just doesn't deserve to live.
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indy_go_blue44 — 15 years ago(August 18, 2010 09:29 PM)
Hattie did have lesbian affairs with "working girls" in the town while Sybil was in tow, but it seems that she didn't deliberately put Sybil in a position to witness the acts. I won't argue that her sexual organs weren't invaded or argued, but in the legal sense of molestation being an attempt to achieve sexual gratification for herself or Sybil, it seems more a case of battery rather than molestation. There's no mention of Hattie masturbating herself or Sybil or of having Sybil do anything to her. I also won't argue that having sex in front of her wasn't a form of sexual abuse. In that I mostly blame her father; whereas Hattie was mentally ill, there wasn't a damn thing wrong with him to justify or explain his behavior.
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genevaporter — 12 years ago(April 14, 2013 07:16 AM)
I wondered if Hattie's mutilation of Sybil was done in what Hattie's twisted mind thought of as "for her own good." It seems similar to families that perform female circumcision on their daughters. The object of female circumcision is to prevent the female from enjoying sex, and remaining pure for her future husband. The culture justifies it as a method for preventing women from extramarital sex.
Hattie might have had the same idea for Sybil. She might have felt ashamed of her own sexual acts (or sexual abuse, because it's not uncommon for abuse victims to blame themselves for the abuse). She didn't want Sybil to feel that shame so she made it so Sybil would feel no pleasure from sex. If Sybil felt no pleasure, then she would not feel ashamed if anyone forced himself on her. Hattie might have seen herself as protecting Sybil by allowing Sybil to exonerate herself from blame.
The ironic thing was Hattie was doing exactly what she was trying to protect Sybil from. And it didn't work: part of the reason Sybil needed the other personalities was that she couldn't allow herself to feel angry about what her mother did to her. -
sntonysam5 — 12 years ago(July 04, 2013 12:34 PM)
You do know the story has been proven to be fabricated, don't you?
There was NO evidence at all the real Sybil, Shirley Mason, was abused at all by the mother. She did come from a strict religious background and felt isolated because of it, but her problems, which were nothing remotely close to MPD or DID, stemmed from a PHYSICAL problem called pernicious anemia. The doctor involved should have had her medical license taken away from her, but she wanted that fame and glory and was in cahoots with an author who also wanted the same thing. -
richard-III — 12 years ago(January 12, 2014 05:27 PM)
Except for Debbie Nathan's book (which is criticized for twisting the facts), there's no evidence that the story is totally fabricated. Schreiber's famous book SYBIL is not a scientific case document but a fictionalized version to tell the story as well as protect the 'real Sybil'. Nathan just tells her version of the story, and I dread the day that one journalist is considered to tell "the truth and nothing but the truth". Just like the TV movies made their own interpretations.
"I don't discriminate between entertainment
and arthouse. A film is a goddam film."